The Ultimate Carb Project!

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YoDude
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The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by YoDude »

With all the hubub about the carb slides needing some vacuum (air filters that are not TOO free flowing) in order for them to work correctly, I suddenly got an idea on a way to fix that problem once and for all.

I might call it the CV to VM carb conversion. If you don't know what a VM carb is well lookie here:

Image

You'll notice the throttle cable comes in at the top of the carb and directly lifts the slide instead of depending on vacuum to do the same job. The VM carbs don't have a throttle plate like the CV carbs do, so, they are not the same animal.

Now just adding a different cap on the top of the carb that allows a cable to be attached to it with the cable going down inside the carb to where the slider lives and attaching the cable to the slider itself, wouldn't be too much of a deal to do. But, that alone won't make the carb work right by doing just that. Somehow we would also have to control the throttle plate (butterfly) as well and at the same time as the slider.

So, I got to thinking about how to do that and the idea of a throttle cable, 'splitter' like the one we already have, could be used to pull the throttle plate and the slider at the same time. Obviously, this would require two splitters, one for each carb going to the existing throttle splitter and that makes for a lot of splitters, so off I went digging on the net and found a four way splitter that could do the job of the three it would otherwise take to make it work.

Right now, it's just an idea and there's more research I'd have to do on the carbs to figure out a good clean way to keep the vacuum from affecting the slider, which might be as simple as plugging the hole that goes through the slider, which could be easily done by tapping the hole on the top end of the slider and inserting a screw to plug the hole.

Now, if I can figure out a way to incorporate this idea along with another I have, which is to get rid of the idle sync cable, that would be something!

Yo-
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Fred
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Re: The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by Fred »

Got rid of my idle synch years ago. It has been poo poo'd by the purple board as ridiculous but I don't have a synch cable I have 2 idle screws. I have posted pics years ago on how to modify the end of the synch to act as an idle for the front carb.

I have also lengthened the mixture screws with a 4 inch speedo cable with a tyre air valve cap on the end so I can now synck and adjust idle mixture while riding it,---if I want to. Poo poo way I dont care.

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Re: The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by NE_FL »

Fred wrote:Got rid of my idle synch years ago. It has been poo poo'd by the purple board as ridiculous but I don't have a synch cable I have 2 idle screws. I have posted pics years ago on how to modify the end of the synch to act as an idle for the front carb.

I have also lengthened the mixture screws with a 4 inch speedo cable with a tyre air valve cap on the end so I can now synck and adjust idle mixture while riding it,---if I want to. Poo poo way I dont care.
Where can I see the how to do it, can you repost the pics and instructions?

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Fred
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Re: The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by Fred »

I should have known that would happen. Im on a lousy internet connection and I cant do pictures. Ille see if I cant find it on the purple board. It really is simple to make.

I do so agree on the Synch cable and is probably one of the reasons the 1400 was stopped in production not to mention the down draft BDS36 Mikuni.

Im giving your conversion Idea a lot of thought. The main prob I can see is getting rid of the butterfly and the therefore the idle circuit which would then be from the needle as per normal slide carbs. Im not sure its possible but ide love to try it.

Its one of those mods where the point of no return is at the beginning and I don't have box of spare mikunis.

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Re: The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by Herb »

I have been thinking about this same thing. Mostly because the diaphrams wear out and are very expensive to replace the whole slide.
I thought about taking the throttle plate off, leaving the shaft in place.
This would require someway of adjusting the slide for the idle.
Still thinking about it...

This would be easy to adapt to the rear cylinder, but not sure how to make it work on the front down draft.

I can't seem to win the lottery. I think I have used up all of my good luck riding motorcycles.

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Re: The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by YoDude »

Yeah, that down draft carb on the front seems to screw up the works with the whole idea. I'm gonna have to have a good close look at the bike next time I remove the tank again.

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Re: The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by Fred »

I have just been looking at rubber gloves --well Latex gloves and it says on the back they are resistant to unleaded petrol --Hmmmm I wonder if it would make a diaphragm.

The BDS 36 (D denoted down draft) is a pig-- The slide not only has inlet depression pulling at it it also has to lie on its side so is affected by gravity. To get over this the Mikuni engineers applies further depression at a constant rate through the little hole on the diaphragm dash pot rim. You may have seen this pin hole jet that has to line up with the carb housing. If you have a slow operating front carb with surging at cruise speed it could be that tiny jet.

This means the slide has to drag itself up and down trying to keep synched with demand from the butterfly.

The rear simply hangs from the diaphragm and can move easier.

I have not researched this this but found it out myself after years of surging that would not be cured by richening or weakening. A pig of a carb and Im all for modifying the crap out of it.

Have you thought of replacing the carbs to another Mikuni and convert the front to a side draft. That would be easy as I already have a manifold under the bench from when I tried a single carb mod.

That didnt work iether having a horrible idle but ran so smooth at cruise---oh if only I could get that idle. I know a lot more since then and I know that you will never get a 1400 to run right with 2 inch opens,---not a chance.

I found a good way of fixing holes in diaphragms!!!!! beer o clock--- going out.

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Herb
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Re: The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by Herb »

I did find this for replacement diaphrams, at a much lower cost. $19.50 + $6.80 for shipping.

http://jbmindustries.com/Dimensions.html

On their list they claim the M73 fits the bs36 and will fit the bds36 with modification. I assume the mod required is for the extra hole that is in the stock system.

I have found an easy way to repair the holes in the stock ones, that is pretty cheap, easy and seems to last a long time. I will post it on the thread the fred started.
I can't seem to win the lottery. I think I have used up all of my good luck riding motorcycles.

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Re: The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by YoDude »

In looking at the price of the new carb idea, it cost being just a mere $100 dinars, it would certainly be cheap enough to do for both carbs as two new stock BD carbs are running at $600ea, I think. Freaking ridiculous if you ask me. As I've said in another thread, I'll have to have a real good look around under the hook, the next time I remove the tank. The rear carb would SEEM to be a non-issue, but that front one could be a show stopper.

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Fred
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Re: The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by Fred »

Herb wrote:I did find this for replacement diaphrams, at a much lower cost. $19.50 + $6.80 for shipping.

http://jbmindustries.com/Dimensions.html

On their list they claim the M73 fits the bs36 and will fit the bds36 with modification. I assume the mod required is for the extra hole that is in the stock system.

I have found an easy way to repair the holes in the stock ones, that is pretty cheap, easy and seems to last a long time. I will post it on the thread the fred started.
Very interesting Herb--Ille take a look at that.

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Re: The Ultimate Carb Project!

Post by Fred »

I am getting really interesting in this Idea and giving it a lot of thought.

So far we have take off the butterly!! but I would take out the shaft too and epoxy the holes other wise you would still have the cable quadrant. Then you got to fil the hole at the bottom of the slide.

You then go to figure out some way of attaching a cable to the slide and still be able to adjust the needle :blink:

You will need a much stronger spring to keep the side in control with the cable.

Then you remove the diaphragm ---Yeeeaaahh after that I would give it a run and see what happens.

Im a but worried about the choke / cold start device. This hole is behind the butterflies which is why the choke is useless with butterfly open. Now it is in full view of max depression, might need to close that hole down a bit, easy to make a jet for it.

So cable to slide --any ideas Oh no no I got it, the cable could go in the vacuum hole. It will need something to secure it

Next problem is room for the cable on the rear carb and finding space under the seat squab for a cable to come out and up. Not sure if there is room for that. ;IDunno:

Apart from that I cant see anything else. except im not sure what the idle circuit will do now its staring vacuum straight in the face and actually runs the bike up to 1/4 throttle. It will no doubt need some hole filing and rejetting of the idle jet but thats easy.

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