Cutting S83 Handlebar clamp

[hillsy]

The only one who is "bickering" here is you. I'm giving the guy advice that works.

[Designer]

The only one who is "bickering" here is you. I'm giving the guy advice that works.

And so am I, hillsy. As I suggested,...he do a Standard Bleed since the Reverse Bleed didn't do the whole job.
I look forward to what results Pvt-Nemesis has with doing that.

Sorry guys,..I apologize for hillsy starting one of his this "Tech Arguments" with arguing this;

Syringe will do the same job as a Mity-Vac - with the added bonus of being able to push the fluid as well as draw it

Seems he likes to bicker Equipment, instead of focus doing whatever technique gets Results,........ and has done so before on The Tech Board.

[hillsy]

Hey Pvt-Nemesis - just ignore the guy that keeps apologizing for people who are giving you advice that actually works.

You don't need a Mity Vac - you already have a syringe.

If you haven't already - put some teflon tape on the bleed nipple threads and then you can push / pull the fluid however many times you like without pulling any air into the syringe. If you pull 50ml through then push 50ml back up that will easily push all the fluid out of the line. You may need to do this a few times to get ALL the bubbles out though.

[Pvt_Nemesis]

Well this is turning into quite a clusterf@#k;
- the master cylinder no longer fully holds pressure it feels like and "fades" back to the grip. Whether this is part of the problem or resulting from trying to solve it i now need to buy a seal kit and rebuild the master.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2009-Suzu ... 632-2357-0
- a test drive produced some strange, faint noises from the front end. On investigation it appears they may have dropped my wheel when they fitted a new tire as there is now 1.5 - 2.0mm bend to the rotor. Very apparent with the much longer tokico pads, so i probably also need a new rotor
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intruder-VS-14 ... 632-2357-0

All in all a simple upgrade has turned into an abomination of a project

I don't know if the coding of this forum allows but should the latter part of this thread be moved to the Tokico big brake post?

[Herb]

Well this is turning into quite a clusterf@#k;
- the master cylinder no longer fully holds pressure it feels like and "fades" back to the grip. Whether this is part of the problem or resulting from trying to solve it i now need to buy a seal kit and rebuild the master.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2009-Suzu ... 632-2357-0
- a test drive produced some strange, faint noises from the front end. On investigation it appears they may have dropped my wheel when they fitted a new tire as there is now 1.5 - 2.0mm bend to the rotor. Very apparent with the much longer tokico pads, so i probably also need a new rotor
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intruder-VS-14 ... 632-2357-0

All in all a simple upgrade has turned into an abomination of a project

I don't know if the coding of this forum allows but should the latter part of this thread be moved to the Tokico big brake post?

Check the flea market, there are ads for bikes that are being parted out. You can probably save a lot of money.

http://www.intruders-alert.com/viewtopi ... d5754c2db7

[hillsy]

Well this is turning into quite a clusterf@#k;
- the master cylinder no longer fully holds pressure it feels like and "fades" back to the grip. Whether this is part of the problem or resulting from trying to solve it i now need to buy a seal kit and rebuild the master.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2009-Suzu ... 632-2357-0
- a test drive produced some strange, faint noises from the front end. On investigation it appears they may have dropped my wheel when they fitted a new tire as there is now 1.5 - 2.0mm bend to the rotor. Very apparent with the much longer tokico pads, so i probably also need a new rotor
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intruder-VS-14 ... 632-2357-0

All in all a simple upgrade has turned into an abomination of a project

I don't know if the coding of this forum allows but should the latter part of this thread be moved to the Tokico big brake post?

First thing you should do is put the old caliper back on and see if you can bleed it to get back to the original feel at the lever. If that happens then you probably have an issue with bore size of MC not being big enough for the new caliper - and a new kit for the MC won't do much to fix that.

Sucks about the disc being warped though. But check the flea market / post a wanted ad first up.

[Designer]

Well this is turning into quite a clusterf@#k;
- the master cylinder no longer fully holds pressure it feels like and "fades" back to the grip. Whether this is part of the problem or resulting from trying to solve it i now need to buy a seal kit and rebuild the master.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2009-Suzu ... 632-2357-0

This seems rather odd. The timing I mean. I have had my Stock Master Cylinder have this issue.( called Internal Leaking) When I took it apart, I found that the Bore have alot of Linear Scratches in it (parallel to the Piston's movement.) It is only aluminum and so I sanded out the scratches with very fine Grit sandpaper (400 Grit IIRC) . I did at the time Install a Rebuild Kit, because it made sense since I was already in there. If you are reluctant to make that purchase right away, perhaps taking it apart and seeing if there are those Scratches would narrow down your Searching for a Solution. If they are good enough, just reassemble it and see if it improves. Then decide if you want a Rebuild Kit.

You mention the Tokico Caliper Thread. Take note that the Two guys who did this Upgrade ( udm1989 and Uxbridge Brule ) did not have any issues regarding the aforementioned issue of.... bore size of MC not being big enough for the new caliper. They did say that it Worked Really Well....no mention of changing the Master Cylinder.
From the Actual Experience of Both Udm1989 and Uxbridge Brule,...if it was an issue, they would have reported it.
So you can pretty much ignore all that "advice" for how inaccurate it is.
And,...there has also been some "advice' about putting the Stock Caliper back on and bleeding it just to check if you need a Larger Bore Master Cylinder. Given that they Both did not change the Master Cylinder, you can just ignore this errant, time wasting advice also.

- a test drive produced some strange, faint noises from the front end. On investigation it appears they may have dropped my wheel when they fitted a new tire as there is now 1.5 - 2.0mm bend to the rotor. Very apparent with the much longer tokico pads, so I probably also need a new rotor
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intruder-VS-14 ... 632-2357-0

Like Herb says, do check out our Parts Selling Board.

[Pvt_Nemesis]

Good to know your experience with those scratches - I've ordered the rebuild kit already and have a cylinder hone to give a light polish to the bore. It very much feels like all the "work" the MC has had to do trying to bleed tipped it over the edge.

I did a lot of research on the Tokico brake mod and contacted several users direct so I'm very confident that there is no issue there. Ryan Winters {Winters Machining} is also a man of integrity and wouldn't sell a product that didn't work (why is that so rare?) so im confident there is no issue there.

I've contacted on the thread you supplied but being in Christchurch, New Zealand means US freight charges are insanely, gougingly, ridiculously overpriced (and move at the speed of a glacier). Its often cheaper to go with eBay suppliers who have existing freight arrangements.

If i hadn't just put a new tire on I'd take the opportunity to switch to a 21" front wheel (with a straight disc!).

[Herb]

On my 87 I had a problem with the brake handle being almost against the bar by the time it worked. Pumping a couple of times and it was good. Tried bleeding but didn't help.
While t-shooting I saw that the part of the lever that pushes on the piston was badly worn and so was the pivot for the lever. replaced the lever and the problem went away.

[hillsy]

By all means buy a new MC kit - but you rarely find the bores get scored - its usually just the seal that lets go. I'd still be putting the old caliper on to verify that though - wont cost anything.

One other thing about the disc - it is a solid unit (non floating) so they can be trued. You probably have nothing to lose by try to do this yourself. If you have a platform jack to lift - spin the front wheel you can tap the disc near the mounts either way to move / true it. Dont hit the disc face.

Having said that Metal Gear do a disc here in Oz for $150 brand new so it's not that expensive to replace.

[Designer]

Good to know your experience with those scratches - I've ordered the rebuild kit already and have a cylinder hone to give a light polish to the bore. It very much feels like all the "work" the MC has had to do trying to bleed tipped it over the edge.

With your reporting that it "fades" in holding pressure, that kinda-sorta tells me there is Internal Bleeding past the Pressure Seal. Just why it does can be compound...meaning both the Seal and possibly Bore Scratches.

I did a lot of research on the Tokico brake mod and contacted several users direct so I'm very confident that there is no issue there. Ryan Winters {Winters Machining} is also a man of integrity and wouldn't sell a product that didn't work (why is that so rare?) so im confident there is no issue there.

Quick question,.....does your Tokico Caliper have pistons all the same diameter?

I've contacted on the thread you supplied but being in Christchurch, New Zealand means US freight charges are insanely, gougingly, ridiculously overpriced (and move at the speed of a glacier). Its often cheaper to go with eBay suppliers who have existing freight arrangements.

Good Thinking. I've come to the same conclusion about shipping nowadays.
Maybe what hillsy suggested of buying a new one from Metal Gear in nearby Australia will work for you?

[Pvt_Nemesis]

What about a sticky piston? If the piston seal bites on the piston then when the lever is released the seal will pull the piston back too far. So the next lever action has a long travel before it firm's up for to the piston needing to travel a long way.

This is in addition to the fade-to-grip issue of a work MC

[hillsy]

What about a sticky piston? If the piston seal bites on the piston then when the lever is released the seal will pull the piston back too far. So the next lever action has a long travel before it firm's up for to the piston needing to travel a long way.

This is in addition to the fade-to-grip issue of a work MC

I dont recall you saying if you popped the pistons out of the caliper before you used it? Was it overhauled at all?

[Designer]

What about a sticky piston? If the piston seal bites on the piston then when the lever is released the seal will pull the piston back too far. So the next lever action has a long travel before it firm's up for to the piston needing to travel a long way.

This scenario just might possible, though is obviously not the Fading Lever issue.

About the only thing that would cause this would be Dirt/Brake Pad Dust on the Piston at the Exposed Portion. It could be that the Intruders Disc you have is wider than the previous one, Therefore, the Pistons needed to be Pushed In more than they were before,.....thus dragging in any Dirt/Brake Pad Dust that was on the previously Exposed Portion on them into the Seals area. If you want to check this, what about pulling that Caliper, placing a piece of wood ( or similar) where the Disc would be,...Pushing the Pistons out some using the Lever and checking for the Dirt? If Clean, then try cycling them In-and-out a bit to make sure they are free moving.

BTW does your Caliper have all 6 pistons the same diameter?

This is in addition to the fade-to-grip issue of a work MC

I take it you haven't dissembled the Master yet.

[hillsy]

Multi piston calipers usually have the leading piston smaller than the others - this one has two out of the six a slightly smaller diameter.

It's really hard to clean around pistons when they are in the caliper - almost impossible to get to the back of them and you won't be able to spin the pistons without damaging them. If you haven't done so already you should pop the pistons out with compressed air and clean them properly. You can split those calipers in half which makes it easier.

[Designer]

Not all Tokico calipers have a smaller leading piston;

There are at least two versions of this Tokico caliper, one has all six pistons the same diameter (mine) and the other has four the same and two small ones.

Though not easy, it is possible top clean behind the extended piston. Small diameter Brushes can get in that narrowed space, I have done so myself. Thus saving all the time and hassle/effort in removal and refitting.

[hillsy]

If part of the problem is that dirt has been pushed back into the caliper / past the seals then the only way to get that sorted is by removing the pistons.

[Designer]

Not always. It would depend on how much Dirt/Brake Dust may have been there,...and.. how far into the Fluid Chamber of the Caliper it may/may not have happened.

I have had Brake Dust on the Pistons get into the Seal area,..but not beyond....Cleaned it off by extending the Pistons out well,...cycled them in-and-out a few times ( coating them with Brake Fluid) and reset them to the proper place for the application ,..and all worked well.

[hillsy]

If this has happened then there is no other way....

If part of the problem is that dirt has been pushed back into the caliper / past the seals then the only way to get that sorted is by removing the pistons.

It actually far less mucking around to simply blow the pistons out than to mess around trying to clean around them in situ. There's 6 pistons here - you will not get them all clean without a LOT of mucking around and possibly damaging them.

[Designer]

If this has happened then there is no other way....

If part of the problem is that dirt has been pushed back into the caliper / past the seals then the only way to get that sorted is by removing the pistons.

Yes,.....that is......IF dirt has been pushed back into the caliper / past the seals.

And I addressed the scenario you posted by my saying this;

Not always. It would depend on how much Dirt/Brake Dust may have been there,...and.. how far into the Fluid Chamber of the Caliper... it may/may not.... have happened.

I have had Brake Dust on the Pistons get into the Seal area,..but not beyond....Cleaned it off by extending the Pistons out well,...cycled them in-and-out a few times ( coating them with Brake Fluid) and reset them to the proper place for the application ,..and all worked well.