'94 VS1400 No Pressure in Clutch Lever

[sgtcall]

Originally, when I didn't get pressure back in the lever the first time, I thought there was air in the system still (definitely a possibility still lol) so I got that cheap Pittsburgh automotive bleed kit but the seal on the lid for the inline reservoir was bad and I would have to hold it tight for the vacuum to be present.

Definitely have thought about grabbing the mityvac but didn't want to drop too much money on the issue if I didn't need to.

I use the Pittsburgh bleeder but I only use the gun itself and use an old mayo jar to hold the fluid. Just caulk or glue the tubes into place on the jar.

[YoutubeID][/YoutubeID]

[hillsy v2]

.....Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the syringe method - are you just filling the syringe with fluid, connecting a hose between it and the bleeder valve, cracking the valve and pushing fluid and any air in the line back up to the reservoir on the master?

Yes,...pretty much. As you correctly pointed out, when you use it to push fluid, you are pushing IN air. And that is what you want out, is it not?

At the risk of laboring the point you DON'T push air into the bleeder with a syringe. You DO push air out of the line and into the reservoir though - hence you are working with gravity, not against it.

Then the beauty of it is you can draw the fluid back out....then push it in again...then out....without removing the hose.

You waste very little fluid and it works beautifully.

[navigator]

Just a word of caution, regardless of which tool you wish to use...
Forcing fluid up thru the bleeder will create a stream of fluid out of the orifice in the floor of the master cylinder, enough to spray the ceiling of your shop....put the cover on the master cylinder.

[Shirkni]

I think for the sake of keeping things as cheap as possible, I'll be picking up a syringe before the bleeder comes in. When I first couldn't get any pressure back, I initially thought there might be air trapped in the line, and I had seen videos about doing the syringe method. Sure you'll introduce a little bit of air, but as long as you've got enough fluid in the syringe then it would all get forced out the master, right? Plus air naturally rises, so it makes sense to me.

Thanks for the input, everyone, I will post again once I've got an update.

[hillsy v2]

Sure you'll introduce a little bit of air, but as long as you've got enough fluid in the syringe then it would all get forced out the master, right?

Suction some fluid out of the bleed nipple first up to draw any air out of the nipple / hose.

[Designer]

I think for the sake of keeping things as cheap as possible, I'll be picking up a syringe before the bleeder comes in. When I first couldn't get any pressure back, I initially thought there might be air trapped in the line, and I had seen videos about doing the syringe method. Sure you'll introduce a little bit of air, but as long as you've got enough fluid in the syringe then it would all get forced out the master, right? Plus air naturally rises, so it makes sense to me. Thanks for the input, everyone, I will post again once I've got an update.

Good that you see that the syringe method does indeed put air into the system. It is unavoidable because there will always be Air inside the Bleeder Valve..

About the air being driven up and out the Master Cylinder,...wellll,...not so much. By pushing fluid that contains air in it up,....you push the Introduced Air up and into the small places in the Banjo Bolt/Fitting.
However, there is a Clean and Paint-safe Method though to remove all that Introduced Air;
http://intruders-alert.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4

[hillsy v2]

Good that you see that the syringe method does indeed put air into the system. It is unavoidable because there will always be Air inside the Bleeder Valve..

Dude - I'm sorry but you have no idea.

It's really simple - you draw some fluid out of the caliper first before you reverse bleed.

No air goes in.

[Designer]

Good that you see that the syringe method does indeed put air into the system. It is unavoidable because there will always be Air inside the Bleeder Valve..

Dude - I'm sorry but you have no idea. It's really simple - you draw some fluid out of the caliper first before you reverse bleed.
No air goes in.

In the interests of making sure our Tech Board dispenses fully accurate information......nope.

Because the Bleeder Valve is not directly Vertical but is Tilted ...any remaining fluid within the Bleeder Valve will seek being level with the ground,...thus, there will always be some amount of Air within the inside Diameter of the Bleeder.

To help those who are challenged as the Physics here. If you have a full-to-the-brim glass of water,...and tilt it,....you get some water flowing out, and there is air replacing it....thus,...one will witness the Air Gap between the Level Water and the Top Inside Surface of the Glass.

This Air-Gap situation within the Tilted Bleeder Valve is ALWAYS there when any Fluid is within it Any Time you remove the syringe.....whether it be when,... " you draw some fluid out of the caliper first before you reverse bleed"......or Any Time during the Push Bleed method.

The physics are as inescapable as is gravity itself.

[sgtcall]

@Shirkni just to help you out with the debate, when it comes to bleeding the brakes and clutch on the Intruders there is no perfect answer you just have to figure out what works for you and run with it. Both hillsy and designer have made good points about what works for them and both could be right.

One piece of advise, in the future if you are changing brake or clutch fluid never empty the master cylinder just add new fluid as you drain the old and you won't have any issues. But yes, there are times that you will have to empty the master cylinder.

[Designer]

One piece of advise, in the future if you are changing brake or clutch fluid never empty the master cylinder just add new fluid as you drain the old and you won't have any issues. But yes, there are times that you will have to empty the master cylinder.

And that is indeed, good advice. It is the best way to avoid having to deal with Air In The System.

Seeing as how over half the time one spends on these three Hydraulic Systems is Fluid Replacement Maintenance (especially the Clutch as Engine Heat darkens it much quicker)...it only makes good sense to use the Quickest, Cleanest and Hassle-free Method for Bleeding them.

Replacing The Fluid in a System that already has No Air means someone does not need to mess with the Air that gets trapped in the Banjo Bolt/Fitting up near the Master Cylinder....because,......... it isn't there!!

And the Mity Vac Tool does this Quickly,...Cleanly,...with the least amount of hassle. With it's Top-down working/method that WORKS WITH GRAVITY,...not against it.

As shown,...pushing fluid up using a Syringe INTRODUCES the Air into The System ,.....that MAKES FOR the messy hassles up at the Banjo Fitting. ....not to mention the "geyser effect" that Navigator pointed out that adds more work (on-off removal/wiping clean of the cap) and the possible Paint Damage of such spewing of Hydrualic Fluid..

In conclusion,...the purchase of a Mity Vac,.Pays For Itself... in having to spend less time screwing around,...and thus,...More Riding Time.

Isn't that what we all want?

[hillsy v2]

As shown,...pushing fluid up using a Syringe INTRODUCES the Air into The System

No it doesn't.

I get that you've never used a syringe and you want to promote Mityvacs but you are simply speaking rubbish here.

But as sgt said - each to their own. If you are more comfortable using a Mityvac that's fine. Just dont bash other methods that are also proven to work.

[Designer]

As shown,...pushing fluid up using a Syringe INTRODUCES the Air into The System

No it doesn't. I get that you've never used a syringe and you want to promote Mityvacs but you are simply speaking rubbish here.

So,...are we to take this a meaning you are denying the Physics pointed out here?

In the interests of making sure our Tech Board dispenses fully accurate information......nope.

Because the Bleeder Valve is not directly Vertical but is Tilted ...any remaining fluid within the Bleeder Valve will seek being level with the ground,...thus, there will always be some amount of Air within the inside Diameter of the Bleeder.
To help those who are challenged as the Physics here. If you have a full-to-the-brim glass of water,...and tilt it,....you get some water flowing out, and there is air replacing it....thus,...one will witness the Air Gap between the Level Water and the Top Inside Surface of the Glass.

This Air-Gap situation within the Tilted Bleeder Valve is ALWAYS there when any Fluid is within it Any Time you remove the syringe.....whether it be when,... " you draw some fluid out of the caliper first before you reverse bleed"......or Any Time during the Push Bleed method.

The physics are as inescapable as is gravity itself.

And,......Pointing out the truth about something so that it is known to everyone is not bashing. It is making sure all who read this have The Knowledge Of What To Expect if they choose to do something.

And that is in keeping with the Integrity of Our Tech Board,....is it not?

[hillsy v2]

For people who can't grasp how you can reverse bleed without pushing air into the system....

It's really simple - you draw some fluid out of the caliper first before you reverse bleed.

No air goes in.

[Designer]

For people who can't grasp how you can reverse bleed without pushing air into the system....

It's really simple - you draw some fluid out of the caliper first before you reverse bleed.
No air goes in.

Help me understand then,.....are you saying that you put the syringe on the closed Bleeder,...open it up,...draw some existing old fluid in,...then push it back in?

And you are saying that there wasn't any Air in the Bleeder before you opened it?

[hillsy v2]

For people who can't grasp how you can reverse bleed without pushing air into the system....

It's really simple - you draw some fluid out of the caliper first before you reverse bleed.
No air goes in.

Help me understand then,.....are you saying that you put the syringe on the closed Bleeder,...open it up,...draw some existing old fluid in,...then push it back in?

And you are saying that there wasn't any Air in the Bleeder before you opened it?

You got it with the method.

I never said there wouldn't be any air in the bleeder when you put the syringe hose over it - I said you don't push that air into the system. You draw any air out of the tube before you reverse the flow. No additional air should go in.

[Designer]

Wellsir,...any air in the Bleeder that doesn't get taken out of the syringe can be pushed back into the system. Not to mention any Road Dust/Dirt within the Bleeder. If you do not take the syringe off after drawing in old fluid, and empty that Dust/Dirt and Air before reconnecting the syringe,...all of that can be pushed into the system. Which can get up and block the teeny-tiny little holes in the Master Cylinder. This is especially true of the darkened Clutch Fluid.

In short, it makes little sense to push all that old, contaminated and possibly dirty fluid up,...against Gravity,.... and into-and-through the Master. And then have futz with having to repeatedly Put On/Remove,..Put on again/Remove again,.. Put on Again/Remove AGAIN...the Reservoir Cap, .... so you can Empty out said-same Old Contaminated Fluid from the Master Cylinder, using a turkey baster or syringe,...all done up near the Tank Paint and all.

What does make sense is drawing all that old fluid/dirt RIGHT AWAY by using the Mity Vac,... that Pulls Down WITH Gravity,....and PULLING IN ALL NEW Fresh, Clean Fluid.....and instantly REMOVES any Dirt/Air from the Bleeder,......And empty the old Fluid EASILY from the Mity Vac Cup,...all done FAR AWAY from any Paint.

[hillsy v2]

Wellsir,...any air in the Bleeder that doesn't get taken out of the syringe can be pushed back into the system. Not to mention any Road Dust/Dirt within the Bleeder. If you do not take the syringe off after drawing in old fluid, and empty that Dust/Dirt and Air before reconnecting the syringe,...all of that can be pushed into the system. Which can get up and block the teeny-tiny little holes in the Master Cylinder. This is especially true of the darkened Clutch Fluid.

In short, it makes little sense to push all that old, contaminated and possibly dirty fluid up,...against Gravity,.... and into-and-through the Master. And then have futz with having to repeatedly Put On/Remove,..Put on again/Remove again,.. Put on Again/Remove AGAIN...the Reservoir Cap, .... so you can Empty out said-same Old Contaminated Fluid from the Master Cylinder, using a turkey baster or syringe,...all done up near the Tank Paint and all.

What does make sense is drawing all that old fluid/dirt RIGHT AWAY by using the Mity Vac,... that Pulls Down WITH Gravity,....and PULLING IN ALL NEW Fresh, Clean Fluid.....and instantly REMOVES any Dirt/Air from the Bleeder,......And empty the old Fluid EASILY from the Mity Vac Cup,...all done FAR AWAY from any Paint.

Again - never said to push old fluid back into the MC - we're talking about a system that has fresh fluid here.

A syringe can be used to draw or push fluid. Something a Mityvac can't do.

[Designer]

Again - never said to push old fluid back into the MC - we're talking about a system that has fresh fluid here.

I see,....so, when you draw out the old fluid, you then must disconnect the syringe to avoid sending it back in. Therefore what I pointed out right here applies to pushing Air back in;

In the interests of making sure our Tech Board dispenses fully accurate information......nope.

Because the Bleeder Valve is not directly Vertical but is Tilted ...any remaining fluid within the Bleeder Valve will seek being level with the ground,...thus, there will always be some amount of Air within the inside Diameter of the Bleeder.

To help those who are challenged as the Physics here. If you have a full-to-the-brim glass of water,...and tilt it,....you get some water flowing out, and there is air replacing it....thus,...one will witness the Air Gap between the Level Water and the Top Inside Surface of the Glass.

This Air-Gap situation within the Tilted Bleeder Valve is ALWAYS there when any Fluid is within it Any Time you remove the syringe.....whether it be when,... " you draw some fluid out of the caliper first before you reverse bleed"......or Any Time during the Push Bleed method.

The physics are as inescapable as is gravity itself.

Aslo,...all I pointed out here, still applies;

In short, it makes little sense to push all that old, contaminated and possibly dirty fluid up,...against Gravity,.... and into-and-through the Master. And then have futz with having to repeatedly Put On/Remove,..Put on again/Remove again,.. Put on Again/Remove AGAIN...the Reservoir Cap, .... so you can Empty out said-same Old Contaminated Fluid from the Master Cylinder, using a turkey baster or syringe,...all done up near the Tank Paint and all.

What does make sense is drawing all that old fluid/dirt RIGHT AWAY by using the Mity Vac,... that Pulls Down WITH Gravity,....and PULLING IN ALL NEW Fresh, Clean Fluid.....and instantly REMOVES any Dirt/Air from the Bleeder,......And empty the old Fluid EASILY from the Mity Vac Cup,...all done FAR AWAY from any Paint.

[hillsy v2]

Again - never said to push old fluid back into the MC - we're talking about a system that has fresh fluid here.

I see,....so, when you draw out the old fluid, you then must disconnect the syringe to avoid sending it back in. :

No you don't have to disconnect the syringe in this application - this system has fresh fluid already.

But you can remove the air from the hose and nipple without drawing fluid out.

[Designer]

No you don't have to disconnect the syringe in this application - this system has fresh fluid already. But you can remove the air from the hose and nipple without drawing fluid out.

What you just said here, is in direct ioppositio0bn to what you said here;

Sure you'll introduce a little bit of air, but as long as you've got enough fluid in the syringe then it would all get forced out the master, right?

Suction some fluid out of the bleed nipple first up to draw any air out of the nipple / hose.

Seems we have a Credibility problem here.