Clutch help

[mikebet45]

Clutch engagement was at the very end of lever movement when I got the bike, so I put in a new set of friction plates to replace the badly worn ones. Now for some reason I can't get the longer bolts on the clutch basket to seat. The shorter bolts are no problem, but the longer ones don't seem to reach the threads on that inner hub to get started. Is there something else I should be doing to situate the entire clutch basket inward so that the bolts reach?

[Designer]

Hello Mike! May I welcome you to our Tech Board.

Assuming the Clutch Pressure Plate is installed correctly,...are you certain you have the Shorter Bolts (35mm) threaded into the Clutch Spring Slider not the Clutch Sleeve Hub?

[Herb]

that was my first thought because the first time I replaced the clutch I did that.

[mikebet45]

OK, finally got it...mostly. I had to swap out the newly-installed friction discs for another set. It seems as if the first eBay set I got were too thick and the clutch simply would not release. The new set works OK, even though it's hard to shift into neutral unless I time it right while decelerating. In time I think everything will smooth out. One thing I do like is the instant clutch engagement with just a little lever movement. Now on to other things. I suppose fork seals will be next project.

[sgtcall]

So I made a seal driver for about $6.00. All you need is
2ft of 2in PVC pipe.
one 1 1/2 inch PVC bushing
one hose clamp big enough to go around the 2in pipe.

Cut the inside lip off the bushing so that it will fit over the slider. Then cut a 5/8 inch grove on both sides of the pipe about 4 inches long. Once you put the bushing on top of the seal, put the 2in pipe on the fork slider and tighten the hose clamp on the pipe so that it rests on top of the bushing. Then put the fork leg on a block of wood and hit the 2in pipe with a rubber mallet.

It will seat the seal easily with one or two good hits.

I will try and get pictures up.

[hillsy v2]

So I made a seal driver for about $6.00. All you need is
2ft of 2in PVC pipe.
one 1 1/2 inch PVC bushing
one hose clamp big enough to go around the 2in pipe.

Cut the inside lip off the bushing so that it will fit over the slider. Then cut a 5/8 inch grove on both sides of the pipe about 4 inches long. Once you put the bushing on top of the seal, put the 2in pipe on the fork slider and tighten the hose clamp on the pipe so that it rests on top of the bushing. Then put the fork leg on a block of wood and hit the 2in pipe with a rubber mallet.

It will seat the seal easily with one or two good hits.

I will try and get pictures up.

That's pretty neat DIY.

Whatever method you use to seat the seal - make sure the fork is compressed (spring out) when you do it. That way if you accidentally marr the chrome on the stantion it is not in the seal travel zone.

[Designer]

OK, finally got it...mostly. I had to swap out the newly-installed friction discs for another set. It seems as if the first eBay set I got were too thick and the clutch simply would not release. The new set works OK, even though it's hard to shift into neutral unless I time it right while decelerating. In time I think everything will smooth out. One thing I do like is the instant clutch engagement with just a little lever movement. Now on to other things. I suppose fork seals will be next project.

Sorry to hear that this happened to you.

This is the first I have heard about Plates being too thick. I have heard of engagement problems similar yours now when the Plates weren't installed as per the Factory Suzuki Shop Manual though.

Can you recall if you installed first the Wave Washer Seat with the recess facing out? Then the wave Washer,.. then the Single Fiber Plate that is thicker than all the others?

[vintruder]

Hello everyone, this is my 1st tech post. I bought a 1996 Intruder 1400 back in April and have been restoring it ever since. I saw this thread and had to know - I am having a similar problem. I bought a set of designer springs and installed them this past weekend. I had also bought a set of EBC plates as I figured now would be the time to do it. I did all the work per the service manual/this board (or so I think). Anyway, took her for a test drive this morning and it seemed to have a lot more bite to it and my lever is WAY bit tighter. I assume this will just take some getting used to.

The main problem though is very shortly after taking off, I can't get it out of 1st gear without an enormous kick on the shifter (if at all). At a stop, with the handle pulled all the way in, I can feel it pulling a little, and it seems to overheat. It seems like the clutch is dragging. When I shut it off, I can shift with almost no effort.

Did I do something wrong ? I know the bolts/springs are all in the right place, I checked and rechecked that a good 3-4 times. Is there a breakin period/exercise I am not aware of ? Or am I experiencing something similar where the plates are too wide ? Here is more info that I hope can help, any thoughts would be appreciated before I go tearing it apart again. Thanks !

1996 Intruder 1400, essentially stock
New Designer springs
New EBC clutch plates
New Valvoline 10W40 bike oil & filter

[hillsy v2]

Hello everyone, this is my 1st tech post. I bought a 1996 Intruder 1400 back in April and have been restoring it ever since. I saw this thread and had to know - I am having a similar problem. I bought a set of designer springs and installed them this past weekend. I had also bought a set of EBC plates as I figured now would be the time to do it. I did all the work per the service manual/this board (or so I think). Anyway, took her for a test drive this morning and it seemed to have a lot more bite to it and my lever is WAY bit tighter. I assume this will just take some getting used to.

The main problem though is very shortly after taking off, I can't get it out of 1st gear without an enormous kick on the shifter (if at all). At a stop, with the handle pulled all the way in, I can feel it pulling a little, and it seems to overheat. It seems like the clutch is dragging. When I shut it off, I can shift with almost no effort.

Did I do something wrong ? I know the bolts/springs are all in the right place, I checked and rechecked that a good 3-4 times. Is there a breakin period/exercise I am not aware of ? Or am I experiencing something similar where the plates are too wide ? Here is more info that I hope can help, any thoughts would be appreciated before I go tearing it apart again. Thanks !

1996 Intruder 1400, essentially stock
New Designer springs
New EBC clutch plates
New Valvoline 10W40 bike oil & filter

Did you soak the new friction plates in oil before you installed?

[vintruder]

I sure did, for about a day and 1/2. When I put them back in, it definitely seemed like a tighter fit than the old ones I removed but I just assumed that was normal.

[Herb]

Since you have managed to get it running well and on the road I believe you have a pretty good idea of what you are doing mechanically.

Are you sure you have the bolts in the correct places.

The first time I installed new plates I got the bolts in the wrong places and the clutch was hard to put together and had a tendency to drag, like yours is doing.

I am assuming that you have bled the clutch well and have almost no slack in the clutch lever.

I have also had an issue with the piviot on the clutch lever being worn and I had to pump the lever really fast 3 or 4 times to get it to release properly.

[hillsy v2]

I have also had an issue with the piviot on the clutch lever being worn and I had to pump the lever really fast 3 or 4 times to get it to release properly.

Actually - that's a good point - the slave cylinder may not be "primed" enough to cater for the extra movement now needed.

[vintruder]

Herb - thanks for the advice on the pivot I will check that. My lever is pretty solid and was working perfectly before. Actually when I first got the bike that was one of the first things I had to fix. The clutch piston was completely seized from bad fluid/leak. So I rebuilt the hydraulics and keep a pretty close eye on it now. Actually on the lever - Before I made the change, I had maybe a good 1" or so from the handle bar for an engagement point, the "friction zone" which was plenty of room to "feather" it if needed. Now it is very tight and I have maybe 1/4" off the handlebar to where it engages. If this is normal then ok, I will get used to it, but if not - maybe it's another symptom ? How much room do you guys have on yours ?

I can't think of anything else to try so I will be taking it all apart and re-checking, I must have missed something. I will post my findings as well.

[Designer]

Herb - thanks for the advice on the pivot I will check that. My lever is pretty solid and was working perfectly before. Actually when I first got the bike that was one of the first things I had to fix. The clutch piston was completely seized from bad fluid/leak. So I rebuilt the hydraulics and keep a pretty close eye on it now. Actually on the lever - Before I made the change, I had maybe a good 1" or so from the handle bar for an engagement point, the "friction zone" which was plenty of room to "feather" it if needed. Now it is very tight and I have maybe 1/4" off the handlebar to where it engages. If this is normal then ok, I will get used to it, but if not - maybe it's another symptom ? How much room do you guys have on yours ?

Your suspicions about this situation (underlined above) not being normal are correct.

Tell us,....since the starting point of Clutch Engagement is this close to the Grip, at what point moving outwards does the Clutch fully engage?

And,...does the Lever Action have a soft and/or inconsistent feel to it?

Yes, My Springs will require a bit more effort to pull in the Clutch, but that is Good! Everyone gets used to it pretty quickly.

You did mention that the Clutch has ..."more bite".
To understand better, does this mean you sense a stronger engagement?..... or something else?

[hillsy v2]

Herb - thanks for the advice on the pivot I will check that. My lever is pretty solid and was working perfectly before. Actually when I first got the bike that was one of the first things I had to fix. The clutch piston was completely seized from bad fluid/leak. So I rebuilt the hydraulics and keep a pretty close eye on it now. Actually on the lever - Before I made the change, I had maybe a good 1" or so from the handle bar for an engagement point, the "friction zone" which was plenty of room to "feather" it if needed. Now it is very tight and I have maybe 1/4" off the handlebar to where it engages. If this is normal then ok, I will get used to it, but if not - maybe it's another symptom ? How much room do you guys have on yours ?

I can't think of anything else to try so I will be taking it all apart and re-checking, I must have missed something. I will post my findings as well.

1/4 inch lever travel until the clutch engages is not normal.

Here's something you could try - loosen the slave cylinder bolts equally about 1/8 inch. Now pump the lever until the slave moves away from the case. Then tighten the bolts and see if anything changes.

[vintruder]

Guys, thank you so much for the quick replies ! I had not really thought much about the slave cyl & hydraulics since they are on the other side of the bike and I knew they were working. But apparently not - on hillsy's advice (Thank you!) I opened up the slave compartment. The top slave cyl bolt head sheared off and fell out, so when I pump the clutch it moves the cylinder instead of pushing the rod. I remember thinking when I replaced the cyl that those bolts seemed rather flimsy, and guess I must have tightened it enough to where the tighter springs finished it off.

Designer - thank you as well ! The first time I rode it, I felt it grab a hell of a lot more as in stronger engagement, which is exactly the idea right ? For the 1st 5 minutes or so it felt awesome, but then kept getting harder and harder to shift until it eventually kept stalling and it felt really hot when I got home. With the new springs in there at about 1/8"-1/4" out I can feel it grabbing and its fully engaged at not much more than that, no friction area at all.

So the above seems consistent with the cylinder bolt problem, so I will repost when I have it fixed. Anyone know how to get the rest of that bolt out of the hole, or any repair ideas ? Thanks again for all your help and quick responses.

[Designer]

Guys, thank you so much for the quick replies ! I had not really thought much about the slave cyl & hydraulics since they are on the other side of the bike and I knew they were working. But apparently not - on hillsy's advice (Thank you!) I opened up the slave compartment. The top slave cyl bolt head sheared off and fell out, so when I pump the clutch it moves the cylinder instead of pushing the rod. I remember thinking when I replaced the cyl that those bolts seemed rather flimsy, and guess I must have tightened it enough to where the tighter springs finished it off.

Yes, these Stock bolts are "flimsy". They are Grade 5 and are "soft" so to speak. What you report about the Slave Cylinder now being askew (due to Broken Bolt Head) does seem to fit your Symptoms. If you were to have loosened both bolts, there would not have been a change. Due the the fact the the 8 Springs have way more than enough force to overcome any Slave Cylinder Piston movement or lack of movement.

Designer - thank you as well ! The first time I rode it, I felt it grab a hell of a lot more as in stronger engagement, which is exactly the idea right ? For the 1st 5 minutes or so it felt awesome, but then kept getting harder and harder to shift until it eventually kept stalling and it felt really hot when I got home. With the new springs in there at about 1/8"-1/4" out I can feel it grabbing and its fully engaged at not much more than that, no friction area at all.

I'll wager that this worsening condition was due to the Slave Cylinder Mounting Bolt Head sheering off.

So the above seems consistent with the cylinder bolt problem, so I will repost when I have it fixed. Anyone know how to get the rest of that bolt out of the hole, or any repair ideas ? Thanks again for all your help and quick responses.

Since you report that the Head only is what sheered off, there's a better-than-even chance you can grab the remains and turn it out. If I may suggest,...A Vise Grip would be THE TOOL to do so.

[hillsy v2]

If you were to have loosened both bolts, there would not have been a change. Due the the fact the the 8 Springs have way more than enough force to overcome any Slave Cylinder Piston movement or lack of movement.

That's got nothing to do with why I suggested loosening the bolts.

Glad you found the problem vintruder

[vintruder]

Gentlemen - thank you all very much for your assistance. The old clutch was working fine (good enough, it seemed) but in reality it seems was barely hanging on. I got the bolt out with a remover tool I had to turn by hand along with a lot of grunting as there was not enough shank left to get a vice grip on at 1st. Now everything is back together and working flawlessly. I have plenty of friction zone on my lever and Designer's springs provide a much stronger "bite". So far all I can say is wow and thank you ! I look forward to being a regular member of the board. Happy Halloween everyone !

[hillsy v2]