Rate my performance upgrade options

[thedaydreamer]

Its funny you say that the idle speed stop screw will not transfer 1:1 to the front, is that most vs1400s? Ive noticed on mine, if I play around with the idel speed stop screw, the idel can go wonky and the bike seems off for sure, My plan is once I get the exhasut on, ill have the vaccum sync all hook up with the auxilary tank and adjust the mixture, the idle all while the vacumm guages are still hooked up, so ill make changes to the idel and mixture while constantly revisiting the sync both high and low speed

[sky02]

Its the fault of the cable idle sync method. There is always some material flex, the carbs are different models. Standard thing on all VS bikes.
Dont adjust the mixture while syncing. It can be a little bit off.
Dont waste time on aux tank, use my tank lift procedure. Less you move the tank less you mess with the cables.
Set the mixture, do the sync then recheck the mixture. Set up idle speed while doing the sync.
If you are in running condition so your idle sync is not way off and your idle speed is not way off but somewhere between 900-1100 there is no difference if you set up idle mixture before or after the sync. Good sync dont affect the mixture but If you do it after the sync a good mixture can increase your rpms even by 100 and it will be to fast.
Good idle mixture will give that cylinder more power but it wont affect the amount of air that it pulls though the small open of the butterfly.
A good begining to start if you have standard air box and some good custom pipes with baffles plus standard jets is. 2,5 turns front, 2 turns rear. Needle on front 1 notch rised (one notch down from the middle), rear at the middle. Start with that, do a quick sync and set up idle speed if you had to take the carbs of the bike. Turn the mixture a quarter turn in and wait 15 seconds. Find the point where the idle speed is fastest . Do one carb at a time. It is easier with digital tacho like that i have stripped about one inch at the end of the wire and twist it at connector on on of the coils. Reads the rpms way better than wraping it around the cable to the spark plug (you have to set it up to a proper amount of bangs per rpm) with that tach you can see 10-20rpms change with 1/8-1/4 turn of a mixter something that can be hard to hear for untrained ear. It is also very useful to set up proper idle speed while doing the sync. I also leave it mounted on the handle bar while cheking of the bike pulls properly on given rpms while tuning.

[thedaydreamer]

Its the fault of the cable idle sync method. There is always some material flex, the carbs are different models. Standard thing on all VS bikes.
Dont adjust the mixture while syncing. It can be a little bit off.
Dont waste time on aux tank, use my tank lift procedure. Less you move the tank less you mess with the cables.
Set the mixture, do the sync then recheck the mixture. Set up idle speed while doing the sync.
If you are in running condition so your idle sync is not way off and your idle speed is not way off but somewhere between 900-1100 there is no difference if you set up idle mixture before or after the sync. Good sync dont affect the mixture but If you do it after the sync a good mixture can increase your rpms even by 100 and it will be to fast.
Good idle mixture will give that cylinder more power but it wont affect the amount of air that it pulls though the small open of the butterfly.
A good begining to start if you have standard air box and some good custom pipes with baffles plus standard jets is. 2,5 turns front, 2 turns rear. Needle on front 1 notch rised (one notch down from the middle), rear at the middle. Start with that, do a quick sync and set up idle speed if you had to take the carbs of the bike. Turn the mixture a quarter turn in and wait 15 seconds. Find the point where the idle speed is fastest . Do one carb at a time. It is easier with digital tacho like that i have stripped about one inch at the end of the wire and twist it at connector on on of the coils. Reads the rpms way better than wraping it around the cable to the spark plug (you have to set it up to a proper amount of bangs per rpm) with that tach you can see 10-20rpms change with 1/8-1/4 turn of a mixter something that can be hard to hear for untrained ear. It is also very useful to set up proper idle speed while doing the sync. I also leave it mounted on the handle bar while cheking of the bike pulls properly on given rpms while tuning.

Good info thanks
Heres where I am at now
I have all the upgrades in and after the baffle fell out last night bike was much faster, Took out other baffle today and bike runs really fast and smooth and loud, so essentially its a straight pipe, I have not tuned it but the screws are 3 out on both, needles 3rd clip position, and the dyna is set to 6500k and curve 4
I think the next few days I will be adjusting the mixture screws for best idel and syncing and tune it for the straight pipes
I saw your rasied tank method and was doing that but stopped in fear of 2 things, that the tank may come off or fall during tuneing or a bump,,,and,,,I was not sure if there was enough clearnece to adjust and lock in both the idle and high speed sync,,,,,its a good and easier idea though to just raise the tank

[sky02]

I lift the tank stationary during the sync only way faster and less mess with cables. There is enough room to use wrench.

[thedaydreamer]

I lift the tank stationary during the sync only way faster and less mess with cables. There is enough room to use wrench.

SO I was not happy with the drag pipe performance and sound and by accident a baffle came out and speed really picked up, today I took the other baffle out and bike sound loud but really fast so I am going to tune for these open pipes, im still noticeing though some issues with the rear cylinder exhasut, it just does not sound like the front, kind of "piffy" in a way,,,im wondering if the needle need to be at a different setting but it was doing with the OEM needles and they are at the same height, gona try tomorrow to really play with the mixture screws and see if it doesnt iron itself out with some better settings

[sky02]

Mate i dont want to be rude but it seems that you are writing the same thing in different places.

You threw random stuff to the bike, set her up randomly, get random results with one baffle that fell out and drew some conclusions from that.
Put the baffles in, tune her up well. Ride for few days, try to memorise how she pull at the bottom, in the middle where the best torque is (2nd 60kmph, 3rd gear 80kmph, 4th 100kmph) fast twist of the throttle at that speed and gear should almost feel like the bike wants to leap forward under you. How she pulls at the top so what is the top speed.

Take the baffle out do the same and then compare.

Remember that good sync and mixture will make the exhaust sound differently. Also louder is not faster and Im pretty sure that empty pipes perform worse than good baffles.
I gave you very good base settings for baffled pipes start with that. In almost any configuration front cylinder should have needle rised by one notch from the rear. And have a slightly richer idle mixture. Post the picture of your sync gauges at idle and 2000rpm. Sync is critical on that bike. But with the tank mounted and ready to ride not lifted during the procedure.

[thedaydreamer]

Mate i dont want to be rude but it seems that you are writing the same thing in different places.

You threw random stuff to the bike, set her up randomly, get random results with one baffle that fell out and drew some conclusions from that.
Put the baffles in, tune her up well. Ride for few days, try to memorise how she pull at the bottom, in the middle where the best torque is (2nd 60kmph, 3rd gear 80kmph, 4th 100kmph) fast twist of the throttle at that speed and gear should almost feel like the bike wants to leap forward under you. How she pulls at the top so what is the top speed.

Take the baffle out do the same and then compare.

Remember that good sync and mixture will make the exhaust sound differently. Also louder is not faster and Im pretty sure that empty pipes perform worse than good baffles.
I gave you very good base settings for baffled pipes start with that. In almost any configuration front cylinder should have needle rised by one notch from the rear. And have a slightly richer idle mixture. Post the picture of your sync gauges at idle and 2000rpm. Sync is critical on that bike. But with the tank mounted and ready to ride not lifted during the procedure.

Great, thanks for all the info!
SO I bought these upgrades with ideas in mind, this was not totaly random, there was some very good calulation into what I am doing, I left the MJs alone and upgraded the pilots and needles based upon bikes symptoms, I put K&Ns in to open it up a bit and the dyna 3000 to really tune,,,Ive pulled the carbs apart numerous times and mesure and rebuilt, cleaned them to a T,,,in putting these upgrades together nobody knows for sure how its going to run, but I know what I need to do,,,,I spoke to a jetting company that tests cobra mufflers and they told me the baffles in those drags are very restrictive and cheaply made, the bike sounded and ran avg at best with them in, when I took them out it was a differnt bike, pulling harder than ever with the clutch sliping in places it never did,,,,for now this is what I want,,,I may go back to baffles,,but I like the power and sound too much right now,,,,today I tuned the mixture screws for best idle and used your tank on method, so I adjusted the sync I closed the tank and did it again,,,that sync now is not perfect, but its dam sure close and its running like a beast,,,,I took it out and it screams,,,,,But dam its eatn 3 batteries in the last 2 weeks, I put up another post about eating batteries,,,,,if youd like to check it out and give me some advice that would be great, Ive pushed this bike home the last 2 days,,,LOL
Thanks for all the great info and taking time to help a fellow intruder ride out, it means alot to me

[sky02]

Glad that you are not offended have fun with her, tuning VS is pain in the ass. And really sync is critical for her to run the best.

[thedaydreamer]

Glad that you are not offended have fun with her, tuning VS is pain in the ass. And really sync is critical for her to run the best.

Hi Sky
So im tuning even more and its getting really nice,,,I have a question about something you said, you talked about moving the clip on the needle one step down in the rear, given the fact I have factory pro needles I can make that adjustment, right now they are 3rd position on both, should I leave front 3 and put rear on 4? The manual also states that the front mix screw is turned out slightly more than the rear as you said,,,,Where did you get the idea to stagger the clip positions from and have you had succes with it? TY

[sky02]

I said to lift the front, not drop the rear .
Drop the clip on front to 4th, so rise the needle by one notch making it a bit richer in the middle.
The carbs are diffrent models with different airboxes, thats why you have different jets and mixture screw settings, needles are no different to that. Basically you tune it like two separate one cylinder bikes only you have to sync it.
Thats how my Intruder runs best and thats how every one i have heard of liked. I think you can also find some examples of one notch difference on that forum.

The factory configuration in that bike is that the rear is slightly richer than the front so that its safer for the cylinder as it tends to run hotter due too lack of cold air for cooling.
The front is leaned for environmental reasons as it is better cooled. So rear is pretty spot on with factory air filter, jets and muffler. Front can be made richer for max power by that extra 1/2 turn of mix screw and lifting the needle a bit.
By adding a bit more air with KN and better exhaust you change it proportionally.

There are few version of service manuals. In US the 87 and 88 models dont mention air jets and mixture settings only “Pre set” later models with more restrictive exhausts due to environmental norms have it specified at 1 3/4 on both carbs.
But take the Canadian Service manual and for 87 it says rear 2 turns and front 2 3/8 turns. The needle in the front is also more aggressive.

[thedaydreamer]

I said to lift the front, not drop the rear .
Drop the clip on front to 4th, so rise the needle by one notch making it a bit richer in the middle.
The carbs are diffrent models with different airboxes, thats why you have different jets and mixture screw settings, needles are no different to that. Basically you tune it like two separate one cylinder bikes only you have to sync it.
Thats how my Intruder runs best and thats how every one i have heard of liked. I think you can also find some examples of one notch difference on that forum.

The factory configuration in that bike is that the rear is slightly richer than the front so that its safer for the cylinder as it tends to run hotter due too lack of cold air for cooling.
The front is leaned for environmental reasons as it is better cooled. So rear is pretty spot on with factory air filter, jets and muffler. Front can be made richer for max power by that extra 1/2 turn of mix screw and lifting the needle a bit.
By adding a bit more air with KN and better exhaust you change it proportionally.

There are few version of service manuals. In US the 87 and 88 models dont mention air jets and mixture settings only “Pre set” later models with more restrictive exhausts due to environmental norms have it specified at 1 3/4 on both carbs.
But take the Canadian Service manual and for 87 it says rear 2 turns and front 2 3/8 turns. The needle in the front is also more aggressive.

OK, I think there is just some word confusion about raising the clip, lowering the needle,,,,,
SO you are saying that the front should be richer than the rear? The front needle should be on 4th clip position and the rear on the 3rd? DO I have it right? LOL

I have seen the different manual specs as you stated regarding fuel screw turns,,,I did notice that from the 3 out starting positon on my bike, when I started to go in closer to 2.5 the the idle picked up and got faster so Im leaving it in that range,,,,I have not had much time lately, but the sync is very close as are the screws, and I can play with the needle position as well and maybe switch the dyna curve to 5 to play with, I can say that its running fast and strong