Can’t hit Neutral when running.

[1PaulSilva]

Removed Slave Cylinder, watched the piston come out a little when the clutch lever was pulled slowly.

Bled the entire system every which way possible.

Disassembled, cleaned and lubed the shift linkage.

Pros:
Felt Pressure in the clutch lever and shifted into gear without lunging forward.

Cons:
Even with the pressure and being able to shift into first I was not able to find Neutral rolling or not.

After an hour or so I went back to check it out more and when I shifted into first it went right back to lunging forward and stalling.

Tried squeezing the Clutch lever multiple times to bleed the ol skool way and never built pressure.

Also when in gear, the clutch lever pulled in and trying to roll the bike it barely moves as if stuck in gear.

I’ve yet to ride this bike other than the day I purchased it and rode it an hour home. Really about ready to junk this piece.

[Herb]

When you bleed the system do you get air out of it? My 87 had a bad seal in the slave and it was leaking fluid into the crankcase and sucking air back into the clutch system.
I have been riding 1400s since 1989. I only have 2 real gripes about them. the clutch is the worst one.

There is no reason for any of the shit with the clutch. There is no reason for the hyd clutch. My GS1100 had more power with a cable clutch and no "back torque limiter" BS, never gave any problems and the force required to release the clutch wasn't even as hard as the hyd clutch.

The other thing is the shit they did to put the 5 speed together. There is a pin that holds one of the shift forks to the shift drum. It is held in place with a split pin. On my 99 the split pin wore out and let the main pin fall out.
That allowed the trans to go into 2 gears at once locking up the trans it a turn on a city street at about 35. Got real hairy for a couple of seconds before the gear broke and it released. At 70 in San Diego rush hour it could have been deadly.

If I ever get a chance to get one of the 90-94 4 speed bikes I will jump on it, especially since Designer's springs are now available to fix the worst problem with the clutch.

[sgtcall]

Have you tried rebuilding the master cylinder? The seals will go bad and you pull air into the system every time you pull the clutch. Here is an example of the kit but you may be able to find a cheaper version.
https://www.amazon.com/0107-017-Clutch- ... 247&sr=8-3

[Lechy]

Try this, COVER THE PAINTWORK, turn the bars until the master is horizontal, add fluid. don't replace the cover.Take up the slack in the lever then slowly pull the lever about 1 inch then slowly release, you should see bubbles from the return hole, if you see bubbles continue until they stop, if you don't see bubbles take a thin piece of wire (guitar G string works great) and poke out the return hole. If you pull the lever in fully and release you should get a spurt of fluid over a meter high so be careful. Next would be to put the cover back on the master, wrap a rag around the banjo bolt, crack it open, pull the lever all the way, re-tighten the bolt and release the lever, repeat a couple of times, clean up the mess and see if that helped.

[Designer]

Your symptoms point very well to a weak/malfunctioning Hydraulic System.

First,...building on what SgtCall mentions,...Let's check Master Cylinder Pressure Output with and easy test. Be sure to cover the Tank and all Paint with Plastic Protection!

Make sure the Master Cylinder is a level as possible,......take off the Hydraulic Line at the Banjo Fitting and put your finger over the Exit Hole,....make sure it is filled with fluid.......squeeze the Lever slowly and not too hard.....observing if there are any bubbles appearing.......if there are repeat the Lever squeeze until there are none.....when no Air Bubbles isconfirmed check the questions below

1. Does the Lever move a little then stop? It shouldn't move much more than around and inch or so

2. And if does move-and-stop, does the lever stay at that position, or does it slowly keep compressing?

If the Lever moves too much, you might need a rebuild. And if it does keep moving, you have an Internal leak past the Pressure Seal and need to rebuild it.


Here's tutorial about getting all the trapped-in-the Banjo-Fitting micro bubbles out of the system;
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4

[1PaulSilva]

That’s it I am out of ideas. Replaced both Slave and Master Cylinders, bled all the lines again, no air that I can tell left in the system and still lunges forward and stalls when going from N to 1 or N to any gear for that matter. The only thing I have replaced is the damn clutch basket.

[Designer]

Geez Louise! Man, I feel for you.

Might it be that there is something awry with the Clutch Plates themselves that they are not "releasing" enough pressure to cause this problem?

Seeing as how the entire Hydraulic System is rebuilt/new and Bled well, can you check to see if the Clutch Pressure Plate is being pushed out far enough

[hillsy v2]

So just to recap - you were here a week ago:

Removed Slave Cylinder, watched the piston come out a little when the clutch lever was pulled slowly.

Bled the entire system every which way possible.

Disassembled, cleaned and lubed the shift linkage.

Pros:
Felt Pressure in the clutch lever and shifted into gear without lunging forward.

You either still have air in the line or the MC / slave is not working properly.

Have you tried reverse bleeding with a syringe?

[Designer]

If you perform this Technique that removes any and all micro bubbles from the Hydraulic System, you'll save time by not needing to have to bleed the system again;

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4

[1PaulSilva]

Ugh the only thing I can think of is pull the clutch plates again, triple checking my instal and have a look at that clutch basket while I am in there.

[FallenAngel]

Ugh the only thing I can think of is pull the clutch plates again, triple checking my instal and have a look at that clutch basket while I am in there.

It seems to me you had the clutch system working properly then it started to fail.
I would look at your hydraulics more. Your system may be leaking past the seals

Slowly pump your system then hold it for a few minutes when you release the lever see if it returns completely to the rest position

[1PaulSilva]

It does return to proper location and every seal, master, slave cylinder, clutch, springs, oil etc. have been replaced. It never worked right which is why I am fixing it. Like I said previously I rode it once when I bought it and had to hold the clutch and brake in at every stop as it was trying to lunge forward.

[Designer]

Ugh the only thing I can think of is pull the clutch plates again, triple checking my instal and have a look at that clutch basket while I am in there.

After reading you message here.....;

That’s it I am out of ideas. Replaced both Slave and Master Cylinders, bled all the lines again, no air that I can tell left in the system and still lunges forward and stalls when going from N to 1 or N to any gear for that matter. The only thing I have replaced is the damn clutch basket.

........of all your woes,...that is where I suggested you might want to check next.

Please check first to see if when the Lever is pulled fully in that the Pressure Plate moves out far enough to release pressure on the Plates. And that when doing so, the bike rolls forwards and the plates slip ( as they should when in gear and lever pulled in)

I understand your frustration, don't give up,...Please do report back. We are all concerned for you.

[sgtcall]

had to hold the clutch and brake in at every stop as it was trying to lunge forward.

Exactly what mine was doing once, the fix was a master cylinder rebuild. But air in the system for any reason would cause that.

[Herb]

Since the bike had the problem when you got it, did you put the clutch back together the same way it came apart, or did you follow the manual?

Is there a possibility that the previous owner put it together wrong? Might be a spacer where it doesn't belong or a part in backwards.

Not knowing all that the PO did to it makes it hard to figure out what he might have done wrong.

Try using the manual AND even a parts diagram to find out if it is exactly like it should be.

I bought a car that had a knock, got it cheap because the guy thought the engine was shot and he had juat installed a used engine. Come to find out he hadn't tightened the bolts on the transmission. The torque converter to the flex plate bolts were hitting the block every revolution.

[Herb]

https://www.suzukipartshouse.com/oempar ... 2e9/clutch

[Designer]

Since the bike had the problem when you got it, did you put the clutch back together the same way it came apart, or did you follow the manual?
Is there a possibility that the previous owner put it together wrong? Might be a spacer where it doesn't belong or a part in backwards.
Not knowing all that the PO did to it makes it hard to figure out what he might have done wrong.
Try using the manual AND even a parts diagram to find out if it is exactly like it should be.

This is along the lines of what I was getting to, 1PaulSilva

Depending on what you reported back about the amount of Pressure Plate movement, the lack of enough Movement/Clearance/Pressure release might be an indication that the Clutch Plate "pack" could be the culprit.

[1PaulSilva]

Pulled the Clutch Cover, Springs, Clutch Plates and such again. Confirmed all appropriate pieces were installed correctly which they were.

When I pull the Clutch Lever Part No: 23121-38B00 doesn’t move. I can push it in if I try hard enough then it slowly comes back out.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/suzuk ... glp/clutch

[Designer]

Pulled the Clutch Cover, Springs, Clutch Plates and such again. Confirmed all appropriate pieces were installed correctly which they were.

Good! That makes sure that the possibility of the Clutch Pack not being the culprit.

.......When I pull the Clutch Lever Part No: 23121-38B00 doesn’t move. I can push it in if I try hard enough then it slowly comes back out.

AHA! Could be that it is bent.
Can you extract it and check it for bend by rolling it on something known to be totally flat,..(like a piece of glass)

[mikebet45]

I have exactly the same problem, and I know what it is. I first replaced my old clutch with an eBay kit, but found that every time I shifted into first with the clutch pulled the bike would jerk and stall. I replaced the clutch line and master cylinder and rebuilt the slave cylinder (even though it looked good), then bled the hell out of thing -- top bleed, reverse bleed, every kind of bleed. Still stalled. So I ordered another clutch kit from another company and slapped it in. That solved the stalling problem, so obviously the culprit(s) were overly thick clutch discs which did not allow it to release all the way. So now the bike is completely rideable with predictable clutch operation except for one thing -- like you I can't shift into first with the engine running and the bike stationary, although I can often downshift into first while coasting to a stop. So it's obvious to me that the replacement discs are STILL a little too thick. I can live with it by simply pulling the clutch at stoplights, and using the kill switch to shut off the engine when parking and then sifting into neutral for the next startup. I hope that at some point the clutch will wear to the point that I will be able to shift into neutral, but.... I suppose springing for an OEM Suzuki or maybe Barnett clutch would solve the problem, too, but I'm too cheap for that and I'm damn tired of messing with that clutch.