Running Rich ? VS1400

[Jinx]

Hi all, I am new around here (Haven't got over to the new members page yet, but will do).
I have a VS1400 1997 which I have mostly finished rebuilding over the last few years. I purchased the bike from a deceased estate and have replaced an ungodly amount of stuff at a cost I'd rather not ponder so far the list is very long so I'll spare that for another post.

Long story short though the bike is very high mileage (106,000kms). I have sorted all but a few issues with the bike really all that's left is the following issue. As well as a leaking base gasket which I can live with for now.
The one I really need help with though is running rich. The bike has an aftermarket exhaust and when I purchased the bike I had it re-jetted and the carbs balanced as it ran incredibly lean and popped and banged and after that it ran perfectly for about 2 weeks and has now started fouling plugs at an extreme rate, literally within minutes of starting the bike. I have tried adjusting the idle mixture screws but doesn't seem to help it also cuts out when coming to a stop. It idles perfectly but needs throttle slowly reduced when returning to idle if not it will cut out. I'm assuming maybe that's the fouling of the plugs but unsure. I have gone one heat range hotter to try an help it but hasn't made much difference. I do have new intake boots to go on but I have been informed that although they look a bit rough if they were the main cause that would more likely cause a lean condition not what it's currently doing.
Any help would be awesome cheers guys.

[sgtcall]

Welcome!
Here are a couple of things to check out.

INTRUDER MANUALS AND INFORMATION
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14168

POSTING PICTURES ON INTRUDERS ALERT
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13992

[sgtcall]

Some guys that are better than this at me will be along shortly to help you out. In the mean time, where are you from/living. Also what is your motorcycle experience level? Over all mechanical level? Past bikes? etc.

[Jinx]

Hi, thanks for the welcome and the links. I live in the south island of New Zealand. I've had a decent amount to do with bikes I actually worked in parts department for a Suzuki Motorcycle dealer about 10 years ago which was my introduction into bikes as I'd mainly been a car person up till then. I've owned everything from a CBR1000RR SP1 to a first gen Aprilia Tuono, a Suzuki Katana (Should never have sold that one), several scooters and a Suzuki TF125 which I recently sold. I have a decent amount of mechanical ability I rebuilt the forks on the VS during COVID lock down rebuilt calipers and such and have done a decent amount of work on my brothers 83 Yamaha Vision as well, unfortunately carburetors are where my knowledge falls flat on it 's face.

[Herb]

In in this situation I would be looking at the float levels and the needle valve and seat. The seat itself has an oring and if the seat wasn't tight enough it can leak.

Since it sat for a long time there is a chance that dirt has worked it's way to the carbs and could be keeping the float needle from completly seating.

I have seen the main jets work loose and even found one that had actually fallen out. Checke the slide and make sure the needle is properly installed, there is a plate and a screw that holds it in place.

BTW, it sounds like you had the carb work done by someone else. I would contact them since it does sound like some thing on both carbs and that points to a mistake on the persons work.

[Jinx]

Hi thanks for the advice. I did indeed have someone else go through the carbs as carburetors are witchcraft to me I do trust the person who did it, I take your point though things do get missed on occasion. The carbs will be coming off to do the intake boots, unfortunately the person who went through the carbs has since retired and moved away. I do have a friend who will be helping get the carbs off to do the intake boots although he has stated in the past he believes these carbs are the worst designed thing he's ever seen I might try bribe him with a free lunch though lol.

[sgtcall]

Hi, thanks for the welcome and the links. I live in the south island of New Zealand. I've had a decent amount to do with bikes I actually worked in parts department for a Suzuki Motorcycle dealer about 10 years ago which was my introduction into bikes as I'd mainly been a car person up till then. I've owned everything from a CBR1000RR SP1 to a first gen Aprilia Tuono, a Suzuki Katana (Should never have sold that one), several scooters and a Suzuki TF125 which I recently sold. I have a decent amount of mechanical ability I rebuilt the forks on the VS during COVID lock down rebuilt calipers and such and have done a decent amount of work on my brothers 83 Yamaha Vision as well, unfortunately carburetors are where my knowledge falls flat on it 's face.

Great, Hillsy may be able to help you find good sources for parts in that area of the world. He is also pretty good with most bikes.

And yes Hillsy I understand it is two different countries but they have similarities.

[hillsy v2]

Hey Jinx - don't be afraid to get stuck into the carbs. Pretty simple on the VS as they run 2 single carbs - hardest thing about them is syncing them but the manual has that procedure and there's a bunch of threads here that can help (search for carb sync).

There's also a bunch of YouTube videos about cleaning carbs - There's a guy called Hagar Moto who had a bunch of videos on rebuilding a 1400 and he can help. Best bit of advice I can offer here is to get an ultrasonic cleaner big enough to fit the carb body (5 litre?) and buzz away.

As far as parts go ask your local Suzuki shop - you'd be surprised how many parts for these older bikes are still available and at reasonable prices. Outside of that eBay would be you best other option.

[Herb]

Reading the comment I thought of something that happened to me, more years ago than I want to admit, the choke (enrichner) cable stuck in the enrich position.

I had just come back from a 7 month deployment that the bike sat through in a very humid climate (coastal North Carolina) and when I got home and managed to get it started it ran great for a few days and then it started running really rich.

I chased my tail for a while until I notice there was no resistance when I turned the knob to enrich it for a start. I pulled the cable off at the knob end and taped a small funnel on the cable, filled the funnel with penatrating oil and let it sit overnight. The next day everything worked great.

[Jinx]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.
I actually decided to pull the carbs off this evening wasn't as bad as I thought, going back on might be another story but we'll see. One of the intake boots was in really bad shape and I fought a striped screw getting the rear one off, glad I did though new ones are ready to go on even if this wasn't the issue one more thing tackled. I've run the carbs down the road to a friend who actually understands them. He's going to go through check the needle and seat and make sure the float height is set correctly too thanks for that suggestion. Just to confirm and again I have only a very small amount of carb knowledge should it still be set to the height listed in the service manual with the 1 size bigger jets in it ?

I will double check the choke cable operation seems fine, when I got the bike in the state of disrepair it was in the choke knob wasn't actually attached but that being said it seems to work fine but appreciate that too will check that when going back together as well.

Thankfully I still have a good friend who I worked with at Suzuki who still works for them so that'll be good parts wise. I've found partzilla pretty amazing as well shipping is a bit of a pain but I made a big order with them about 6 months ago and couldn't believe some of the bits I could get hold of.

[Herb]

No matter the jet size the float level will always be the same as stock.

[Jinx]

Brilliant, the person who's going to go through them for me would know that just though I'd ask out of curiosity. Sounds like he's going to check them over during the weekend so will report back if there's an update.

[Herb]

Looking forward to hearing what the problem is.

[Jinx]

Quick update on this situation still waiting on getting the carbs back he has managed to go through the rear one so far though he said the float level was a little high but not by a huge margin. I am eager to get them back on especially considering I've tided a bunch of little bits and pieces up so will be good to see how it goes. Did have a question when the carbs go back on do I need to balance them again ? Also thought I'd leave some pics of the bike here.

[navigator]

You will need to sync them again.

[Herb]

Good looking ride.

[Jinx]

Hi all, Another quick update on this situation so, got a call today and my friend has finished going through both carbs as I previously mentioned he did find both float levels were slightly off he also mentioned that most bikes the float level is plus or minus 1mm where the factory service manual in this case says 0.5mm not a big deal just something he commented on.
He did also notice both C.V diaphragms had holes in them so that's the hold up now have ordered some.
One other thing he said there was a small cap on the side of one of the carbs with a spring and such in it and small holes he said it's possibly some sort of enrichment jet. Apparently this was all full of bits of disintegrated air filter, I did replace the filters when I got the bike but obviously some was still in there.
Anyhow just waiting on the diaphragms which come with slides to arrive now, thanks again for all the advice.

[hillsy v2]

There's an enrichment / coasting valve on each carb (# 30 - 32):



Which will be what your mate says is full of dead filter.

By the way - you can buy carb diaphragms without the slides for pretty cheap (https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_fro ... =0&_sop=15). I guess the hard bit will be removing the pressed on holder from the slide without breaking it.

[Jinx]

Hi thanks again ordered the diaphragms with the slides on them they've been all reassembled. Yes those were the parts he was talking about apparently the diaphragms in those were fine so he cleaned and reassembled them. I have been chipping away at getting those carbs back on for the last few days after fighting the elbow for the air box on the rear carb and the obscenely cramped space where the carbs are located I am surprised I haven't seen the carbs in my nightmares yet to be honest
I do have a few quick questions I can't work out where all the cables for the front carb are supposed to be run mainly the piece that merges the two choke cable parts together and what the large hook on top of the front carb with the black cover over it is supposed to hold. Much appreciated.

[navigator]

The wire hook on the front carb with the black plastic sleeve is to tuck your hoses, cables, wires...under.
The wire and cable routing are in the service manual, here:
https://intruders-alert.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14169

To get the snorkel on the rear carb, use the hook from a pick set. Dull the point of the hook with a file so it doesn't poke through the rubber.