Oil flow

[Spitfire]

Alrighty then, as many of you know I've been playing with my bike over the last few weeks. After looking at the service manual oil and cooling section it seems to me they are saying there is a nozzle that injects a little oil into the cylinders, is that correct? The reason I was checking on this is that after my bike has been sitting with the only operation of the engine being with the starter while checking compression I fired it up and it was blowing blue smoke out the rear cylinder. Now I haven't run it more than enough to warm it up to balance the carbs and that is when I noted that blue smoke when I blipped the throttle. Bike has never smoked before nor used any oil so is this something to worry about or just a normal result of too much oil without firing the engine?

[Fred]

No it most definitely does not inject oil into the upper cylinder nor does any other engine on the planet. Some engines have an oil jet on the lower cylinder for lubrication and more so cooling.

Your smoke on one cylinder ( yours being the rear) is a sign of poor Synchronization. If you think about it if one cylinder is doing most of the work (which is what poor synchronization means) it is pulling along the lazy one. This means that oil in the lower cylinder can work its way up into the upper cylinder causing the blue smoke you have noticed

[Spitfire]

Okay that makes sense Fred, thanks. When I was reading and looking at the diagrams it seems as though they are spraying oil into the cylinders, all paths show the oil ends in the crankcase except the nozzle for the cylinders , it doesn't show a return path. Yeah, I'm definitely having some trouble balacing the cylinders, guess I'll have to checkout the carbs , adjusting the sync cable is not having any effect on the intake pressure.

Note added:
After reexamination, I now realize what they are showing with the little directional drops is oil under pressure being "sprayed" up and gravity fed oil is "dripping" down. Think I'll just have another cup of coffee.

[Lechy]

Best way to synch carbs is by using a "U"-tube manometer. There is a great write-up over on the purple board in the 1400 tech section. If you need a link just ask.
[emoji41]

[Fred]

Best way to synch carbs is by using a "U"-tube manometer. There is a great write-up over on the purple board in the 1400 tech section. If you need a link just ask.
[emoji41]

Yeah its ok to do that and I use one two but you need a restriction or if your a long way out it will suck oil into the cylinder shut it down and then what, Remember these people are not mechanics. Ive learned to just say what is wrong and then keep the hell away.

[Lechy]

I understand what you are saying. But anyone but an idiot would shut down the machine once the fluid looked as if it was going to get into the carbs (OK, the world is full of idiots). The write -up I suggested covers this aspect of the operation.
What I did was to get a local shop to drill out 2 long 5mm beheaded bolts with a 1.5mm hole. 2T oil or SAE 10 fork oil as a medium so if it gets into the system it just burns off and causes a bit of smoke. I even use this method on my inline 4.
[emoji41]

[Fred]

Yeah sure --its not life threatening but once you got 2t or EP90 as I use in the motor its still gonna need dismantling the synch pipes and go for a ride to clear it out. You can't synch it if its not running well.

I use a manometer too but I have it 6 feet up in the air so you would need 40 inches of vacuum to suck it in.

Thats not 40 inches of mercury, that something totally different and possibly unattainable.

Its surprising how much they suck --if you'lle forgive the expression. Like a pook girl no no-- sorry.

[Lechy]

"Pook girl" ????
[emoji41]

[Spitfire]

Actually I have a u tube manometer and have used it to sync the carbs before but it is so far out using that is out of the question. The vacuum gauge set up I'm using is quite adequate to get it roughed in and safe to use while the carbs are way out. The problem I'm having is trying to figure out why the front manifold will not pull down. The compression on the two cylinders is fine and they differ by 5 psi or less. What I need to know right now is what are the areas I should be looking at to find my problem. Is the front intake pipe with it's associated o-ring the only source of vacuum leak I need to be concerned with? Is it safe to ass- u-me the problem is not carburetor related as long as the cables are properly adjusted? This seems to be pretty straight forward yet I can't seem to find the cause. I thought of buying a new o-ring &/or intake pipe but to me that is just R&R parts hoping to get lucky and find the right one, not really my style. Oh, and btw, I've been a mechanic for over 30 years but this is my first foray into motorcycles. I am a little cautious, but until just recently I thought the only stupid question was the one you didn't ask.

[YoDude]

Your compression is fine. If you have no exhaust leaks, then there only one answer left...Carbs. or something amiss with the intake. If you're sure there's no intake leaks around the intake manifold side of the carbs, then you're down to mixture issues. Can be caused by clogged air filters. If they are clean, then you're Really down to mixture issues. Typically, the pilot (idle) circuit is the one that offers the most trouble with the Intruders. That and not understanding exactly how the idle sync is designed to work and how to properly adjust it.

It would seem as though you have a good knowledge of the sync and how to adjust it properly. It would also seem as though you've run the gambit of the rest of the obvious possibilities in an attempt to solve the problem. Yet, the problem remains. Because you know the bike used to run correctly, or close to it anyway, means that whatever you setup is currently (likely stock, right?) is a valid setup. This is pointing me to, pull the carbs and dunk clean them. Looks to me like it's all you got left.

Yo-

[Spitfire]

Got it, took time to rethink what I was doing and intake pressures are now about equal, ready for a manometer. Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees. Problem was not a lack of vacuum on the front cylinder but too much on the rear. Knowing how the sync works apparently isn't the same as having it set up right. Feeling kinda stupid right now think I go have a cup of coffee or something.

[Spitfire]

Oh and thanks for everyone's help and comments, helped keep me on track and motivated.

[Lechy]

Way to go Spitfire.
[emoji41]

[Spitfire]

Good news, got the idle sync all done using my homemade manometer after getting it roughed in using a manifold vacuum gauge connected to a old HVAC manifold. End up having to replace my store bought vacuum line restrictors with homemade restrictors to dampen out the pulses. Think it was Lechy that said he had a friend machine him a pair so that is what prompted me to do it as well, worked wonders all but stopping the bouncing of the manometer tube. Would hardly call mine machined quality, they are just two short pieces of .25 inch copper with a solder plug drilled out to 1/32" or .79mm. The only other improvement I would make for the manometer is put a couple of surge chambers on and I bet it would be almost rock solid.

Will get the throttle cables synced later today or maybe tomorrow, got to much to do on the honeydew list getting ready for a trip to the lake next week. Then dial in the air/fuel mix after that. [emoji2]

Oh, and the oil burning issue is resolved, after getting the sync done and getting the bike warmed up enough to heat the exhaust sufficiently to burn all the residual out it runs without blue smoke. Think I drove all the mosquitoes away in the process though.

If I don't get it done before going to the lake, the new fuel lines and sparkplugs arrived yesterday so I can get that all done as well. Only other thing is to change the oil filter and probably the oil in the final drive and it will be ready for some fun.

[YoDude]

Sounds like you got it nailed. [emoji106]

Yo-

[Fred]

Ive read many people sync throttle cable at full throttle,--don't. The carb quadrants are anything but an accurate part and is pressed steel sandwich.

I suggest you sync at idle and set the sync by just cracking throttle by feel then final when running unless you are going to the drag strip every day.

I want a bike to handle as if I was in a funeral procession and is easy to control

[Spitfire]

Good advice Fred, I'm definitely not interested in tuning it for the higher-end. First because I'm anything but a aggressive rider and second because though I've been a mechanic for a long time I'm new to mc work. Because of this I'll definitely follow the book sticking to basic settings and I'm sure be quite happy with what I get. [emoji106]

[Fred]

I normally sync cables just by feel alone and I have to admit I have not read the book. However if you wanted you could hook up your manometer again and just when cracking throttles the gauges should stay the same.

Actually the manometer is to set the sync by opposing each cylinder against the other,--it not so much setting vacuum pressures as setting them the same. Like a tug of war, if the rope stays still both sides are the same.

[Spitfire]

That's right, my manometer doesn't even have a scale not that it would do me any good, can't find any specs on the normal manifold pressure anyway. It does bounce a bit on changing rpms but settle out when the rpms stay the same.

Typical bike vacuum for a carbed bike is the same as for a car. Approx 15" Hg at idle. May vary slightly, but if they are the same then your synced....BUT that's not always true either. If there something wrong with one of the carbs, getting them "in sync" at idle will make the bike run like shit, Syncing them so they sound equal is a better way to do it, but still, if the bike has something wrong with either of the carbs, even tuning by ear will throw you off as well.

I found that one out through experience helping another member with his bike and getting it synced. The VS1400 carbs and I imagine the VS800 carbs are very finicky when it comes to tuning.

Yo-

[Lechy]

Just to add, make sure your filters and connecting tubes are in good condition. A blocked up filter or leaking connection will throw the synch out.
[emoji41]