kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Dominiquer
Practicing Bicycling
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:40 am
My Bike: 1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400

kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Dominiquer »

New owner here. '96 1400 Intruder. Picked it up last week. Ran great until the day I put my new plate on it-go figure!
Had a case of the stalls, I ran some SeaFoam spray through the throttle body. Started up just fine. Raised the idle up a little and Voila! Running nice for 5-7 minutes.

Wife comes home and I shut it down with the kill switch to speak to said wife. After 2 minutes, fire it back up, but when I went to kill it again with the kill switch, the bike shut down, but starter started cranking! Flipped switch on and off, still cranking, so I disconnected the negative battery cable, and it died out. Turned the key off.

Now, when I tried to re-connect the neg cable, there's a big spark! Key is off, out of ignition. Electrical issues are definitely NOT my thing...all suggestions welcome!

User avatar
Fred
WHEELIES R FUN!
Posts: 4527
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:08 am
My Bike: VS 1400. Royal Enfield

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Fred »

Your starter solenoid is stuck. you can try tapping it but it will do it again. Your batt could be low. I know that sounds odd but low batts give more amps and kinda welds the contacts. Some aftermarket solenoids can be dismantled and cleaned up for repeated use.

Tapping it with a small spanner will / may cure it this time.

solenoid --not expensive check Ebay.

Dominiquer
Practicing Bicycling
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:40 am
My Bike: 1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Dominiquer »

Thanks! I've had car starter solenoids stick and do nothing, but never continuously crank.

Dominiquer
Practicing Bicycling
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:40 am
My Bike: 1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Dominiquer »

No luck, but upon inspection, I see a few marks on the solenoid...must have happened before. Thanks.

Dominiquer
Practicing Bicycling
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:40 am
My Bike: 1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Dominiquer »

I pulled the starter motor to bench test the solenoid (on the starter motor) and its fine. Should have thought of this sooner, but after I disconnected the starter wire, I re-attached the battery negative cable, and there was 12.3V at the starter wire (grounded to the block), so I'm guessing its the starter RELAY under the seat, NOT the SOLENOID on the motor.

Now I can't get the starter motor back in. Something is blocking it from inserting all the way in...looks like something from the front of the bike when I look into the opening. Any ideas? ;IDunno:

Dominiquer
Practicing Bicycling
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:40 am
My Bike: 1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Dominiquer »

Not sure if anyone is following this...hopefully you're all out riding!

I used the "bigger hammer" approach and tapped the starter in with a few love taps and a block of wood. Slid in real nice. Moving backward to the starter relay (under the seat. Resistance test shows 3.4 ohms across the two small terminals when on the bench. Stated range is 2-6 ohms. Not sure if this qualifies for a bad relay.

User avatar
Fred
WHEELIES R FUN!
Posts: 4527
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:08 am
My Bike: VS 1400. Royal Enfield

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Fred »

Solenoid --relay --same thing The big electric switch under the seat is a solenoid( big relay). You do not have one on the starter that would be for modern cars like Toyota where the solenoid engages gear and power at the same time ---the Suzi 14oo does not have that. Solenoid active =starter is live.

On a car the solenoid can stick in the off position so nothing will happen.

Your starter should slide in by hand with a bit of grease on the O ring, Should not need to be hammered under any circumstances. The starter slides into a gear that meshes with a sprag clutch and into a bush on the outer case all these parts are delicate and are expensive.

Lechy
Joined a 1000cc Club
Posts: 3955
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:58 pm
My Bike: VS800 Honda Phantom 200

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Lechy »

Start tracing back for volts.

Image

[emoji41]
Grow old disgracefully young man.

User avatar
Fred
WHEELIES R FUN!
Posts: 4527
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:08 am
My Bike: VS 1400. Royal Enfield

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Fred »

Just put it back together. Hopfully you hav'nt damaged the side case or starter gears. Replace the solenoid and battery then check your charge rate.

What happened regarding the solenoid is not a rare case, its happened a lot. If you charge rate is good and it happens again your starter is using too much current . This could be bad starter needing over haul and prob new brushes or you de comp is not working well enough and or feed cables corroded causing resistance.

Dominiquer
Practicing Bicycling
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:40 am
My Bike: 1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Dominiquer »

Thanks for all the input, Fred. I had to leave it yesterday to attend a wedding. I'll get to those suggestions this evening.

Dominiquer
Practicing Bicycling
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:40 am
My Bike: 1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Dominiquer »

OK, So here's what I've tested, and now my new symptoms:
1- Fuses - all OK
2- Battery - OK (12.4V - 12.1V when start button pressed)
3- Battery ground - clean & tight
** Seems to not be the battery/grounds
4- Starter Relay (under seat) - tested across battery to starter motor wires (big posts) - 12.4V ign off, 11.9V ign on, 11.9V start button pressed
5- Starter Relay (under seat) - tested across start button wires (small posts) - 0V ign off, 0V ign on, 11.6V start button pressed
** Seems to not be Starter Relay (solenoid)
6- Ignition Control Module (Clymer's call this "Starting and Automatic Compression Release Control System) - tested across Y/G Clutch Switch and Y/Blk Starter Relay - 0V ign off, 0V ign on, 12.4V start button pressed
** Not sure if I tested the correct thing here, nor of what these results mean
7- Starter motor - Red to battery wire, black grounded to block - 0V ign off, 0V ign on, 12.4V start button pressed.
** Seems like power is getting to starter motor.

Symptoms: Ign on - all warning lights and headlight come on; Press start button - loud click (sounds like its coming from Starter Relay (switching on, circuit closing), then another click. Not a series of ticks, like a low battery.

Could it be the starter motor is locked up?
Rick

User avatar
Fred
WHEELIES R FUN!
Posts: 4527
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:08 am
My Bike: VS 1400. Royal Enfield

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Fred »

The one you hammered into place --yeah suppose so.

Sorry but yeah what else can I say?

Lechy
Joined a 1000cc Club
Posts: 3955
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:58 pm
My Bike: VS800 Honda Phantom 200

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Lechy »

Turn the ignition on, press the start button, hold for a couple of seconds, feel the cable from the solenoid to the starter, if it is hot then your starter needs to come out for bench inspection and checks. If you are going to hook up and operate the starter motor on the bench, make sure it is well secured in a vise, they develop a load of torque and will jump up and beat you around if not secured.
This is what locked mine up:

Image

[emoji41]
Grow old disgracefully young man.

User avatar
Fred
WHEELIES R FUN!
Posts: 4527
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:08 am
My Bike: VS 1400. Royal Enfield

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Fred »

Put it into gear and rock it backwards and forwards if its solid you have done something bad .

If you hammers the end case this holds the brushes!!!! Take the starter out and bench test it again watch what lechy said.

Dominiquer
Practicing Bicycling
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:40 am
My Bike: 1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Dominiquer »

Thanks, Fred and Lechy! I just tapped the starter back into place for the last 1/2 inch, so I'm hopeful I didn't damage it. (Sorry, used to large marine diesels where everything needs to be tapped in place). I will try both tests (hot starter wire and rocking the bike in gear), then I'll bench test the starter. I'm not sure the wire will get hot, as I get the relay to click like the relay is engaging, then another click, which sounds like the relay disengaging. I'll let you know what happens tomorrow. Thanks!

Lechy
Joined a 1000cc Club
Posts: 3955
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:58 pm
My Bike: VS800 Honda Phantom 200

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Lechy »

Remove the solenoid, take it to an Autozone and ask them for one similar, they are a popular part and should be available for around $10 or less. I have a feeling that the other relay you tested was the fuel pump relay and would not cause a problem.
Might be a better option to replace what could be a sticking solenoid than to rip into it again, if a replacement solenoid don't fix your problem then it would mean intrusive surgery on the motor.
The motors are a bit tight to put back in, I use a tire iron to help slide it in over the oil seal ring, hammer adjustment are what I used to do when mechanicing oil rigs, not recommended on bikes though.

[emoji41]
Grow old disgracefully young man.

Dominiquer
Practicing Bicycling
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:40 am
My Bike: 1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Dominiquer »

Thanks. The Suzuki relay from a bike shop is going for $85! I'll check autozone/pepboys. I used to work supply boats in the Gulf of Mexico!

User avatar
Fred
WHEELIES R FUN!
Posts: 4527
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:08 am
My Bike: VS 1400. Royal Enfield

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Fred »

The click that comes out after less that a second is the decomp relay. The Starter solenoid should click at any time you press the starter unless inhibited by side stand, clutch, kill sw, gear etc etc

Dominiquer
Practicing Bicycling
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:40 am
My Bike: 1996 Suzuki Intruder 1400

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Dominiquer »

I toasted the starter, mechanically. The brushes got knocked out of position, and got all chewed up. When I pulled it I also noticed the metal strips on the magneto were so worn they were flush with the mica (white plastic stuff), so it wasn't going to last long anyway. :bonk:

User avatar
Fred
WHEELIES R FUN!
Posts: 4527
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:08 am
My Bike: VS 1400. Royal Enfield

Re: kill switch, starter keeps cranking...

Post by Fred »

Dominiquer wrote:I toasted the starter, mechanically. The brushes got knocked out of position, and got all chewed up. When I pulled it I also noticed the metal strips on the magneto were so worn they were flush with the mica (white plastic stuff), so it wasn't going to last long anyway. :bonk:
Tie a strip of bacon round the hammer shaft and give it to the dog. Lets hope he digs a hole and buries it,-- far away. [emoji106]

Post Reply