Clutch plates

[ecbaatz]

I will be installing Designer’s clutch springs and since I am in there I figure I would replace the plates as well.

I have about 27K on the bike. Not sure I will need them but better safe than sorry.

So does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks,
Eric

[Herb]

Don't waste your money on clutch plates.

I am willing to bet money that if you measure the plates they will be well above the minimum.

[WintrSol]

^^ What he said. In normal use, they outlast most riders.

[Designer]

Herb is our Resident Clutch Longevity Expert. IIRC he had over 160,000 Miles on a set of Plates.

Do I have it right, Herb?

[Fred]

Wet clutches do not work the same way as dry clutches like that of your car. A wet clutch actually generates friction from the oil itself while the plates do not even touch. This part of engagement is dynamic friction.

As the plates are finally squeezed together and the oil is flung out and squeezed out it becomes static friction. Thats why wet clutches are multi plate.

I would have thought you would have known this selling springs. 160,000 is not a lot if dynamic friction is used carefully. Static friction is only applicable when drive is connected. Taking this into consideration wet clutches should and do last forever.

Pull your clutch and select gear , now push the bike, you can feel the friction and its harder to push. That is the friction of the oil sliding between the plates.

Oil on brakes will make them grab, a lot will make them inoperative. Oil can be used to make friction or cure it. Depends how you use it.

Don't give up your day job.

[FallenAngel]

Wet clutches do not work the same way as dry clutches like that of your car. A wet clutch actually generates friction from the oil itself while the plates do not even touch. This part of engagement is dynamic friction.

As the plates are finally squeezed together and the oil is flung out and squeezed out it becomes static friction. Thats why wet clutches are multi plate.

I would have thought you would have known this selling springs. 160,000 is not a lot if dynamic friction is used carefully. Static friction is only applicable when drive is connected. Taking this into consideration wet clutches should and do last forever.

Pull your clutch and select gear , now push the bike, you can feel the friction and its harder to push. That is the friction of the oil sliding between the plates.

Oil on brakes will make them grab, a lot will make them inoperative. Oil can be used to make friction or cure it. Depends how you use it.

Don't give up your day job.

You said what??
Oil increases friction on a clutch disk??
Motorcycle clutches are multi disk to increase friction surface in a compact space

[Fred]

Yes and oil makes them stick.

Rub 2 together dry and they slip past each other but put oil on them and they stick. get enough of them( multi pack) and you have enough friction for a clutch.

[FallenAngel]

Yes and oil makes them stick.

Rub 2 together dry and they slip past each other but put oil on them and they stick. get enough of them( multi pack) and you have enough friction for a clutch.

They stick together because of Hydraulics Not friction
Simple test
Take the same 2 objects Dry rube them together Then soak them in oil and rub them together.

Or Not

[Herb]

actually, the oil is there to provide a much longer lasting clutch, keep the temp down when it is being used a lot, with an engagement that is easier to control. Anyone that has ever ridden a ducati with the dry clutch knows that it is grabby and noisy.

[ecbaatz]

Fred,

Thanks for the information. I am not sure you were talking to me when you said You should know that because of selling springs. I am not selling springs, I purchased them.

I am a nuclear electrician, I know my limitations, which is why I ask questions. I am am always willing to learn. Now if you need a to operate and repair the electrical systems on a nuclear submarine, or need a procedure written to repair said submarine. I can do that.

Thanks again. I enjoy learning all I can about this bike.

Eric

[FallenAngel]

actually, the oil is there to provide a much longer lasting clutch, keep the temp down when it is being used a lot, with an engagement that is easier to control. Anyone that has ever ridden a ducati with the dry clutch knows that it is grabby and noisy.

You are correct Herb
Oil bath Clutch's are quieter smoother to operate and last longer then a dry clutch system.
What Fred was saying was the oil in the oil bath system added friction and that is why the clutch disk's stick to the pressure plates.
He also tried to use Static Friction and Dynamic Friction or the proper term is kinetic friction in his explanation. Nether would apply to this thread

The main reason to use a dry clutch system is that the dry system can handle more torque then a wet system

But then we already knew that


To Replace the clutches or Not replace the clutches
I'm looking forward to checking out Designer's springs just need to slate some money for the bikes

Designer Springs YA

[FallenAngel]

I will be installing Designer’s clutch springs and since I am in there I figure I would replace the plates as well.

I have about 27K on the bike. Not sure I will need them but better safe than sorry.

So does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks,
Eric

You shouldn't need to replace the Clutch disks and pressure plates unless you mix up the parts.
These parts are matced to each other from use and need to go back in the bike the exact same order they came out.

[Fred]

All wet motorcycle clutches drag, they have to to work. You car clutch will clear by a few millimeters and not drag or gear selection would be difficult. The motorcycle is the opposite, every motorcycle even new selects gear with a bang or at least an audible clunk, it has to as the drag of the clutch is needed to keep the gearbox turning so the dog gears can select.

A car has no such dog gears and selects with gears of high tolerance using balk rings and shamfered splined hubs.

If a motorcycle clutch was a dry twin plate type and fully cleared like a car only, 5 out of ten selection attempts would be made ( source BMW experimental division). BMW attempted a dry twin plate that was unacceptable with selection being hit and mis.

With a wet clutch the drag of the oil keeps the dogs turning so selection of the 4 cut dog( sometimes 3 cut dog) can be made.

[FallenAngel]

All wet motorcycle clutches drag, they have to to work. You car clutch will clear by a few millimeters and not drag or gear selection would be difficult. The motorcycle is the opposite, every motorcycle even new selects gear with a bang or at least an audible clunk, it has to as the drag of the clutch is needed to keep the gearbox turning so the dog gears can select.

A car has no such dog gears and selects with gears of high tolerance using balk rings and shamfered splined hubs.

If a motorcycle clutch was a dry twin plate type and fully cleared like a car only, 5 out of ten selection attempts would be made ( source BMW experimental division). BMW attempted a dry twin plate that was unacceptable with selection being hit and mis.

With a wet clutch the drag of the oil keeps the dogs turning so selection of the 4 cut dog( sometimes 3 cut dog) can be made.

Do you mean Drag?
That explains why we get a CLUNK when we put our bikes in gear. It dosnt explain how oil increases friction as you mentioned before.

[FallenAngel]

Designer Springs Freaking ROCK

[ecbaatz]

Fred,

I was an Electrician’s Mate, not an Electrtonic Technician. Big difference. And yes some of it is still classified but you can find basic design and descriptions all over the internet.

Again, I thank you for your input. Great information to know.

Eric

[Designer]

Fred, Thanks for the information. I am not sure you were talking to me when you said You should know that because of selling springs. I am not selling springs, I purchased them. I am a nuclear electrician, I know my limitations, which is why I ask questions. I am am always willing to learn. Now if you need a to operate and repair the electrical systems on a nuclear submarine, or need a procedure written to repair said submarine. I can do that. Thanks again. I enjoy learning all I can about this bike.

Eric

fred is taking A Shot at me with the passive-aggressive personal attack you mention.

When you look at my message, I said nothing about how the Clutch works and what the Oil does within the Clutch. All I said was this:

Herb is our Resident Clutch Longevity Expert. IIRC he had over 160,000 Miles on a set of Plates.

Do I have it right, Herb?

Which mentions nothing about all he talks about, nor even refers to saidsame......It just agrees with what Herb said and verifies him as one who would be a Knowledgeable source of solid information.


An FYI,....Fred has a long history of attacking Me and My Springs. I won't beset you with the litany of it all,...it is not important here and now.

What is important is that you save your hard-earned $$$ and do not replace that which does not need to. [emoji106]

[FallenAngel]

How much is a set your springs?

Proving Designer's post
Seeing as how the weak link in the Intruder is the springs I have to say "Worth every penny"

It is not my intention to Hijack your thread ecbaatz
I hope you got the answers your looking for

One thing I would like to add is Do Not use Automotive oil when you do open the case. Automotive oils have Anti friction additives that case premature ware on your clutch's. Replace your oil with Motorcycle Oil designed for wet clutch s or Rotila Diesel oil
Best of Luck And I hope you get everything you need from this forum to help you enjoy your Intruder

[Fred]

How much is a set your springs?

Proving Designer's post
Seeing as how the weak link in the Intruder is the springs I have to say "Worth every penny"

It is not my intention to Hijack your thread ecbaatz
I hope you got the answers your looking for

One thing I would like to add is Do Not use Automotive oil when you do open the case. Automotive oils have Anti friction additives that case premature ware on your clutch's. Replace your oil with Motorcycle Oil designed for wet clutch s or Rotila Diesel oil
Best of Luck And I hope you get everything you need from this forum to help you enjoy your Intruder

Not correct,-- automotive oils can be used,-- straight 30 or 40 is fine. Rotela is a straight 40. many oils use anti detergent and anti foam for the turbos. Straight oils is fine like it says on your oil filler plug. SAE 30.

Strange how we have had a discussion on how oil increases friction then FA says you must not use oil with anti friction additives!!!

If you get some stronger springs in there --designers or other wise, any oil will do. Its not a formula 1 engine.

I even use wynns friction reducer in the engine --makes the gearbox slick and has not changed my clutch operation. But thats me. Im not saying you do it, Im saying I do it.

[Lechy]

Using straight 30/40 in the 750/800's is not a problem. The 1400 needs 15w-50 because of the hydraulic lifters and cooling system. It won't cause a major problem but the valves won't operate correctly for a while on cold days. As for oil causing friction, it does not, what it does cause however is hydraulic drag which is not friction. Suzuki recommends a detergent oil which is pretty much basic diesel engine oil without friction modifiers usually Teflon or Molybdenum based which coats the clutch surfaces causing slip.
Living in a usually hot environment (Thailand) I have been using a straight SAE 40 detergent oil in my 750 , 800 and 200 for years without any problems.
Designer's springs are well thought of in the 1400 community, a tad expensive but top quality materials. The only problem for owners outside of the US is the high cost of postage.

[emoji41]