Air in clutch line?

[hillsy]

Revisit checking the clutch and stand switches. Jumper the wires together on each one then try again.

[LSU Tiger]

1. I sat on the bike with it in neutral and it rolls easily.

2. I sat on the bike with it in first gear and pushed and it goes about 6-8 inches and as engine tries to turn over it slides (there is about four feet of rubber marks from pushing it yesterday).

3. I sat on the bike with it in first gear and pulled the clutch in and it goes about 6-8 inches and engine tries to turn over it slides.

4. Pulling the clutch in has absolutely no effect on what the bike does.

Thanks.

[Designer]

1. I sat on the bike with it in neutral and it rolls easily.

2. I sat on the bike with it in first gear and pushed and it goes about 6-8 inches and as engine tries to turn over it slides (there is about four feet of rubber marks from pushing it yesterday).

3. I sat on the bike with it in first gear and pulled the clutch in and it goes about 6-8 inches and engine tries to turn over it slides.

4. Pulling the clutch in has absolutely no effect on what the bike does.

Thanks.

Very Good,...well, I mean,... thank you for performing these "tests" in sequence and in time. I have found from past experience that such a test is a Good First Step in finding out if there are Stuck Clutch Plates in your Clutch Pack.

Doing so. and in this order and time, I was looking to see if the might be a slow Internal Leak within either the Master or Slave Cylinder(s). Hence my asking for test #4 after establishing a baseline of Clutch "performance".

Since you have done a quite thorough job of checking to see if the Discs are stuck together ( by rocking the Engine-off Bike in Gear ALOT ),...and since the results of the just-asked-for-Tests indicate a lack of the Hydraulic Systems ability to release pressure on those discs,...And you have reported there is no Air in the Hydraulic System,..I am going to suggest you might have that Internal Leak I have mentioned. Wherein, the External Seal(s) hold the Hydraulic Fluid inside the Hydraulic System,.... but the Pressure Seal has failed and is not doing it's job...or maybe because the Inside Walls of the Cylinder(s) Bore are Scratched so much that the Fluid Leaks past the Pressure Seal.

This was the case with my Stock Clutch Master Cylinder. I found the Bore was SO scratched by the Piston ( remember, the Bore is only Aluminum, and the Clutch Piston moves Dozens of times more often that does the Brake). So, I had mine Sleeved with Grade 603 Stainless Steel.

Never a problem again.

Might you want to take apart your Master and see if the Bore is scratched and check the condition of the Seal? It has probably been more than 6 years ?

[LSU Tiger]

1. I sat on the bike in neutral and pushed the bike. It rolls like it should.

2. I sat on the bike in first gear and pushed. Bike goes about 6-8 inches and engine tries to turn over.

3. I sat on the bike in first gear and pulled the clutch in. Bike goes about 6-8 inches and engine tries to turn over.

4. Clutch had no effect on the bike. Thanks.

[LSU Tiger]

are you saying i need to rebuild my master cylinder? check to see if the sleeve has grooves? we rebuilt the master cylinder several years ago. thanks

[Designer]

are you saying i need to rebuild my master cylinder? check to see if the sleeve has grooves? we rebuilt the master cylinder several years ago. thanks

My experience(s) with this have been with the 1400 and it's Master Cylinder, and none of them were sleeved, they were all aluminum castings.

I sleeved mine when I had this happen to me. I am of the opinion that neither your Master nor Slave Cylinders are sleeved ( from the Factory).

Since there is no Air in the Hydraulic System and there is no External leakage seen, along with all the symptoms you report, that is my best guess at this time. It could also be that the Pressure Seal on either of the Piston(s) has failed, so a Pressure Test would be in order.

[Lechy]

Try dismantling and cleaning the slave. Over time they can get full of gunk.

[LSU Tiger]

I think I am ordering new master cylinder and slave parts and take it to my mechanic friend for installation. Agree?

[Designer]

I think I am ordering new master cylinder and slave parts and take it to my mechanic friend for installation. Agree?

Since all you report points towards this being a Clutch Actuation/Mechanical issue, not an Electrical/Engine Starting issue,...I would agree.

But before you order the Master Cylinder/ Rebuild Parts, best to check to see if the System gets any pressure at all first. Try squeezing the Clutch Lever and crack open the Banjo Bolt just a little to see if any Fluid comes out. If it does, you don't need to rebuild the Master Cylinder or a New one.

What say you hillsy, Herb & Lechy?

[hillsy]

Revisit checking the clutch and stand switches. Jumper the wires together on each one then try again.

More importantly the side stand switch.

[Herb]

The only thing I have had a problem with is the slave cylinder seal sucking air from the trans case. Over 22 years old and over 200,000 miles on the master cylinder and the slave is a 1996 and has, at least, 70,000 miles.
He didn't say what kind of pressure/flow he gets when bleeding the system at the slave. Should have enough pressure when opening the bleeder to push fluid all over the place. If not it is not a slave issue.
My best luck in bleeding these has been to open the bleeder, pull in on the lever, close the bleeder, release the lever, repeat until clear fresh fluid comes out. Then close the bleeder and pull the lever in and try it. There should be a feel of pressure on the lever. If not, try again. Even if the slave is bad the feel on the lever should be the same as if it were working.

[LSU Tiger]

I ordered parts to rebuild the master and slave cylinder. We rebuilt the master cylinder three or four years ago. I am wondering if the master cylinder needs to be rebuilt. If I take the banjo bolt off and hold my finger over the hole and pull the clutch in I should be able to feel the pressure if the master cylinder is good. Correct? Thanks.

[navigator]

Correct, a lot of pressure, unless it is blowing by the seals.

PROTECT YOUR PAINT.

[LSU Tiger]

Master cylinder works great. Plenty of pressure.

[navigator]

Master cylinder works great. Plenty of pressure.

Do you get the same pressure at the slave cylinder when you bleed there?
If not, it could be a plugged line.

[Lechy]

Like Nav said, could be a blockage in the line. The hose part can deteriorate over time causing the inner sleeve to crack and part from the steel webbing acting like a one way valve. Try removing both ends, let the fluid drain out, wrap a rag around the ends and try blowing air through from both ends to compare the flow. If it needs replacing you can get a stainless braided Teflon hose made up at most truck repair shops. If you go this way, when laid out on the floor the 2 banjo ends should sit at right angle to each other.

[Designer]

Master cylinder works great. Plenty of pressure.

Do you get the same pressure at the slave cylinder when you bleed there?
If not, it could be a plugged line.

Since that Master Cylinder Test showed you didn't need to go ahead with your choice of buying New One, Any word LSU Tiger if what navigator suggested was your problem?

[LSU Tiger]

I carried it to my motorcycle friend who repairs motorcycles and he put a new slave and master cylinder on it. It still did not work. The clutch plates were stuck. It sat about seventy days after I had ankle replacement surgery. All is well that ends well.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

[hillsy]

I carried it to my motorcycle friend who repairs motorcycles and he put a new slave and master cylinder on it. It still did not work. The clutch plates were stuck. It sat about seventy days after I had ankle replacement surgery. All is well that ends well.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

Glad you got it sorted (eventually)....Internet diagnosis can be sketchy at times.....but at least you got a spare MC and slave now....

BTW - what did they replace your ankle with?

[Designer]

I carried it to my motorcycle friend who repairs motorcycles and he put a new slave and master cylinder on it. It still did not work. The clutch plates were stuck. It sat about seventy days after I had ankle replacement surgery. All is well that ends well.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

Thank you very much for responding to my message to you about what this issue really was. I hope your New Ankle is working well for you. Is there any Therapy recommended?

This is the kind of feedback this Board thrives on, and your experience tells us more about how stuck Clutch Plates can get. Though I must say, in the 45 years I have been working on Bikes both Professionally and not ( 23 on Intruders) your situation sets the extreme example. I have seen Clutch Plates get stuck on bikes sitting several years, but those plates "broke loose" right away using the method you and I walked through. For yours to stick that hard in such a very short time is an amazement. I am a bit surprised the Mechanic put a whole new Master Cylinder on it. Did he find your existing one had a Scratched Bore?

Yes indeed as you say, all's well that ends well. And good news that with the stress of having your Medical Condition you didn't waste your time and money with chasing down a non-possible fault with anything electrical.