Bigger oil cooler?

[Designer]

So alexhulett71,...as a follow up to your Original Message,....did you find what you were looking for?

Inquiring minds wanna know! [emoji2]

Well no.. I think ive found my culprit as described in other topics on this forum. When I went on a 1000+ mile, 3 day run, I was having issues with my clutch not engaging at the end of the day. I was thinking maybe stuff was getting too hot, more than just the fluid for the clutch. I was riding it hard n fast, I know dummy me but just too much I wanted to see in just a short amount of time and clear accross the map of Tenn and KY. But I finally took a look at that fluid and it was darker than caramel. I finally changed the fluid out this weekend and dummy me sucked out and drained out all the fluid the best I could without adding new fluid n going through the motions..well I had to get a brake bleeder just to get the darn thing to bleed out n full of clean fluid. I know I couldve pumped it till my arm fell off and what would feel like 3-5 days of pumping, but there are more uses I can use the vacuum bleeder than just that.

Here is a method that works well to make sure you get the hydraulic lines clear of any and all air :

http://intruders-alert.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4

[hillsy]

Here is a method that works well to make sure you get the hydraulic lines clear of any and all air :

http://intruders-alert.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4

Nice write up.

If it is the front brake you have an issue with you can also just turn the bars to the left and clamp the brake lever to the bars with an octopus strap. This way the banjo should be lower than the MC. Leave it for a few hours / overnight them let it off and "jiggle" the brake lever. The pressure built up in the lines will then push any air bubbles back out into the MC in a similar fashion. No need to remove the MC cover.

[Designer]

Nice write up. If it is the front brake you have an issue with you can also just turn the bars to the left and clamp the brake lever to the bars with an octopus strap. This way the banjo should be lower than the MC. Leave it for a few hours / overnight them let it off and "jiggle" the brake lever. The pressure built up in the lines will then push any air bubbles back out into the MC in a similar fashion. No need to remove the MC cover.

I have found that the mere Returning in-rushing Hydraulic Fluid coming back into the Master Cylinder is often not enough.

After the release of the lever,...and the fluid has stopped coming back in...I found that moving the lever just a small amount (approximately 1/2 inch ...in-and-out a few times) made appear even more tiny little bubbles at the two small holes in the bottom of the Master Cylinder,...ones that would not have shown up otherwise. And this sometimes needs be done more than once.

Thus removing the Master Cylinder Cover was needed to Confirm all bubbles were removed.

The 'feel' of the lever was nicely improved. [emoji106]

[hillsy]

That's what I meant when I said to jiggle the lever.

[Designer]

That's what I meant when I said to jiggle the lever.

So,...you are on board with making sure that all the micro-bubbles are fully removed then.

[hillsy]

That's what I meant when I said to jiggle the lever.

So,...you are on board with making sure that all the micro-bubbles are fully removed then.

Yes - but there is more to the story.

When you hold the lever against the bars and pressurize the system the air bubbles will rise faster. They also will join together after a time so you are not dealing with "micro" bubbles anymore.

So if you strap the lever to the bars overnight you will have all the air at the highest point in pretty much one bubble - release the lever and the pressure from the hoses will push the bubble out. A couple of jiggles to make sure and you're done.

There's really no need to remove the reservoir cover (assuming the reservoir has fluid and it's venting properly).

[Designer]

Yes - but there is more to the story. When you hold the lever against the bars and pressurize the system the air bubbles will rise faster. They also will join together after a time so you are not dealing with "micro" bubbles anymore.

Sounds nice...in theory.

Have you read my Write up? [space] I do exactly what you mention......'hold the lever against the bars'...Thus,...'pressurizing the system',....as I mention that holding this position will allow the Air to rise up.....and the bubbles will thus rise whilst holding said same.

.....So if you strap the lever to the bars overnight you will have all the air at the highest point in pretty much one bubble -

In theory once again,....have you removed the Cover to CHECK the specific situation involved?

......There's really no need to remove the reservoir cover (assuming the reservoir has fluid and it's venting properly).

If you have not removed the Reservoir Cover and checked it for confirmation,.....you have scant Factual Justification for the conclusion you boast,....and that which you advise others to do.

[hillsy]

Yes - but there is more to the story. When you hold the lever against the bars and pressurize the system the air bubbles will rise faster. They also will join together after a time so you are not dealing with "micro" bubbles anymore.

Sounds nice...in theory.

Have you read my Write up? [space] I do exactly what you mention......'hold the lever against the bars'...Thus,...'pressurizing the system',....as I mention that holding this position will allow the Air to rise up.....and the bubbles will thus rise whilst holding said same.

.....So if you strap the lever to the bars overnight you will have all the air at the highest point in pretty much one bubble -

In theory once again,....have you removed the Cover to CHECK the specific situation involved?

......There's really no need to remove the reservoir cover (assuming the reservoir has fluid and it's venting properly).

If you have not removed the Reservoir Cover and checked it for confirmation,.....you have scant Factual Justification for the conclusion you boast,....and that which you advise others to do.

Your write up says to hold the lever for 20 seconds - I'm talking about strapping the brake lever back to the bars for a few hours / overnight.

I know this works because I have done this many times on many different bikes. You will know it has worked because of the improved feel in the lever - there is no need to remove the cover and look for bubbles if the brake lever is now solid.

Your write up is good - it's just that there are other ways to do this and I prefer the option that makes for the least amount of work / mess.

[Designer]

Your write up says to hold the lever for 20 seconds - I'm talking about strapping the brake lever back to the bars for a few hours / overnight. I know this works because I have done this many times on many different bikes. You will know it has worked because of the improved feel in the lever - there is no need to remove the cover and look for bubbles if the brake lever is now solid. Your write up is good - it's just that there are other ways to do this and I prefer the option that makes for the least amount of work / mess.

You say,....'Improved feel',..and,...'brake lever is now solid'....

I see,...so,..tell us,..when have you removed to MC cover and checked your tech recommendation with visual confirmation that ALL AIR is now removed?

If you go only by,...'feel'...you cannot possibly know,.. for sure,... that all air is removed.

[hillsy]

Your write up says to hold the lever for 20 seconds - I'm talking about strapping the brake lever back to the bars for a few hours / overnight. I know this works because I have done this many times on many different bikes. You will know it has worked because of the improved feel in the lever - there is no need to remove the cover and look for bubbles if the brake lever is now solid. Your write up is good - it's just that there are other ways to do this and I prefer the option that makes for the least amount of work / mess.

You say,....'Improved feel',..and,...'brake lever is now solid'....

I see,...so,..tell us,..when have you removed to MC cover and checked your tech recommendation with visual confirmation that ALL AIR is now removed?

If you go only by,...'feel'...you cannot possibly know,.. for sure,... that all air is removed.

See, you do OK for a while and then you say shit like this ^^^^

You will KNOW if there is air still in your brake lines......

[Fred]

Oh boy when I first heard about this trick I thought what a load of crap, if air is in the system then no way will it come out by pressurizing the system over night. Thing is, the guy that told me was a master mechanic friend of mine , worked for caterpillar in Saudi.

One day I was stuck , just could not get a good pedal no matter what I did so I tried it,-- next morning was a lot better.

Now--- where the air goes or what happens I have no idea but it does work ---sometimes.

[Designer]

See, you do OK for a while and then you say shit like this ^^^^You will KNOW if there is air still in your brake lines......

It is not,..'shit'...as you are want to call it.

I have done the procedure that I wrote up,..(and you approved of),...on MANY 1400's,..the owners of which thought their Clutch Lines were all Air-free.

Asking permission first,...I proceeded to perform that which I posted.

Guess what!...

There was indeed micro-bubbles showing up at the Tiny Holes in the Master Cylinder as I delineated. (as removing the MC Cover could only reveal).

They were rather surprised, seeing as how they were satisfied that the 'feel' of their Clutch Lines told them there was No Air in them.

Even though they liked the performance before,..they were even more happy after I did what I did for them.

[hillsy]

See, you do OK for a while and then you say shit like this ^^^^You will KNOW if there is air still in your brake lines......

It is not,..'shit'...as you are want to call it.

I have done the procedure that I wrote up,..(and you approved of),...on MANY 1400's,..the owners of which thought their Clutch Lines were all Air-free.

Asking permission first,...I proceeded to perform that which I posted.

Guess what!...

There was indeed micro-bubbles showing up at the Tiny Holes in the Master Cylinder as I delineated. (as removing the MC Cover could only reveal).

They were rather surprised, seeing as how they were satisfied that the 'feel' of their Clutch Lines told them there was No Air in them.

Even though they liked the performance before,..they were even more happy after I did what I did for them.

My advice is for brake lines - although it could still be used for a clutch. I've never had a problem bleeding hydro clutch lines - but I forward / reverse bleed with a syringe.

The point with the brakes is that you dont need to see the bubbles with this method - if they are there they will come out and you dont need to risk spilling fluid by removing the cover. You'll know if it's worked by the feel of the brakes. It also has the added benefit of keeping the system under pressure overnight which will show up any leaks at the seals or the line fittings.

[Designer]

My advice is for brake lines - although it could still be used for a clutch. I've never had a problem bleeding hydro clutch lines - but I forward / reverse bleed with a syringe.

Your brake advice is noted,...however, you have posted no experiences with such 'overnight' technique being successful with the Clutch.

And the only way to confirm that there is no air in the system is to visually check it. All else is ASS-umption based on....''feel'.

And I covered the accuracy of what ...'feel'....was in my previous message.

[hillsy]

When I syringe bleed I have the cover off the MC and sometimes have a look to see if there's bubbles still coming out. A syringe full of fluid is about 2 or 3 lines worth of fluid so once you've reverse pumped a syringe full of fluid though you'd be unlikely to have air still in there.

Like I said I've never strapped a clutch lever back to the bars overnight to do the same as I do for brakes but in theory the clutch springs would pressurize the line and do the same thing. Might take a bit longer though.

If you want to cover your bike in rags to see the spurt from the MC port then good for you - I'd much rather not have the chance of spilling fluid on my bike if I didn't have to.

[Designer]

Like I said I've never strapped a clutch lever back to the bars overnight to do the same as I do for brakes but in theory the clutch springs would pressurize the line and do the same thing. Might take a bit longer though. If you want to cover your bike in rags to see the spurt from the MC port then good for you - I'd much rather not have the chance of spilling fluid on my bike if I didn't have to.

Your ignorance is showing again.

Had you READ my write-up,....I tell the operator just how to avoid the 'spurt' you grossly exaggerate about.
Here are the Specific words in FACT;

.....(slowly avoids a Geyser of Fluid that gets all over the place),....

The suggestion to cover the bike's paint is always a wise thing to do,...even if you perform the bleeding you mentioned. So don't try to make such a WISE Suggestion into some sort of needless hassle. We won't be buying that line anytime soon.



Please, hillsy,...don't make us this yet another one of your endless diatribes trying to attack me and/or save face. We had MORE than enough of your doing so in the other Thread.

[hillsy]

If you don't have to take the cover off the MC, then you don't need to have a bunch of rags at the ready - or do you disagree with that?

Maybe it's a bit like tying your bike to a tree to lean it over - surely you wouldn't risk doing damage to the bike if you actually didn't have to, right?

[Designer]

If you don't have to take the cover off the MC, then you don't need to have a bunch of rags at the ready - or do you disagree with that?

[space] You are missing the point I have made about 4 (four) times now.

The only way to confirm that there are no more bubbles appearing at the bottom of the Master Cylinder is TO LOOK INSIDE. Anything else is just Guesswork concluded by,..'feeling'.

Don't persist in your trying to make it seem like paint protection is a some sort huge 'hassle'. It is nothing hard to do and is ONLY WISE. You are making a fool of yourself over it.

[lonerider]

I've had the experience with cars where I've bled the brakes repeatedly but still had a soft spongy pedal. Finally gave up. Checked again in the morning and miraculously had a good firm pedal requiring no more bleeding. So this probably is another case of the micro bubbles disappearing under pressure. Right? By the way, this happened with the master cyl cover on and in place (not removed).

[lonerider]

I've had the experience with cars where I've bled the brakes repeatedly but still had a soft spongy pedal. Finally gave up. Checked again in the morning and miraculously had a good firm pedal requiring no more bleeding. So this probably is another case of the micro bubbles disappearing under pressure. Right? By the way, this happened with the master cyl cover on and in place (not removed).

Now that I think about it, I did check the fluid level afterwards. and it did seem to be down slightly so I added a little more fluid. So, even though it's not strictly necessary to remove the cover and check, it wouldn't hurt to do so.