Right To Bear Arms - Can an ex-felon get it back??

[Herb]

A leopard dont change its spots. Punishment does not change the way you think,-- just makes you more careful next time.

Wrong again Freddy. You get caught enough and you start to change the way you see and do things, at least some people do. I know first hand that the threat of punishment was enough to change the way I did things, especially about the drinking and driving thing. Now I never had a wreck involving someone else while drinking and driving, but I did have a few while sober. but I thank God for that everyday and I've been sober since 8/18/03.

I was referring to bank robbers and rapist not alcohol abuse, but yes you can include yourself if you have been imprisoned more than once for the same offence.

Punishment does not change the way you think,

No, but it damn sure makes you think twice about doing something illegal.

I had a cousin that had been in constant trouble his whole life. He was in jail a number of times for everything from car theft to assualt. Then CA passed the 3 strikes law. He would have gone to jail for the rest of his life if he commited another felony, he NEVER got in trouble, at least never got caught, again. Quit drinking, got a steady job, and kept it, for the last 20 years of his life. He died last year when he fell off the roof of his house.

The THREAT of real punishment was enough to get him to straighten out his fucked up life. So, does the threat of REAL punishment work????

BTW, when he quit drinking he turned into a pretty decent person...

[Fred]

A leopard dont change its spots. Punishment does not change the way you think,-- just makes you more careful next time.

Wrong again Freddy. You get caught enough and you start to change the way you see and do things, at least some people do. I know first hand that the threat of punishment was enough to change the way I did things, especially about the drinking and driving thing. Now I never had a wreck involving someone else while drinking and driving, but I did have a few while sober. but I thank God for that everyday and I've been sober since 8/18/03.

I was referring to bank robbers and rapist not alcohol abuse, but yes you can include yourself if you have been imprisoned more than once for the same offence.

Punishment does not change the way you think,

No, but it damn sure makes you think twice about doing something illegal.

I had a cousin that had been in constant trouble his whole life. He was in jail a number of times for everything from car theft to assualt. Then CA passed the 3 strikes law. He would have gone to jail for the rest of his life if he commited another felony, he NEVER got in trouble, at least never got caught, again. Quit drinking, got a steady job, and kept it, for the last 20 years of his life. He died last year when he fell off the roof of his house.

The THREAT of real punishment was enough to get him to straighten out his fucked up life. So, does the threat of REAL punishment work????

BTW, when he quit drinking he turned into a pretty decent person...

Hey thats great so you don't have murders any more . I mean they get life don't they.

[Prodigal_Sun]

A leopard dont change its spots. Punishment does not change the way you think,-- just makes you more careful next time.

Wrong again Freddy. You get caught enough and you start to change the way you see and do things, at least some people do. I know first hand that the threat of punishment was enough to change the way I did things, especially about the drinking and driving thing. Now I never had a wreck involving someone else while drinking and driving, but I did have a few while sober. but I thank God for that everyday and I've been sober since 8/18/03.

I was referring to bank robbers and rapist not alcohol abuse, but yes you can include yourself if you have been imprisoned more than once for the same offence.

Punishment does not change the way you think,

Let me tell you why that's horsesh*t...

I could write a paper on the Risk/Reward "Matrix" that every living thing that's developed a rudimentary spinal cord uses every waking moment, but I'd just bore the h*ll out of you...

So I'll just put it like this: You claim people are incapable of changing the way they think. By that logic, some people were just born bad. They're first words were "put the money in the bag!". As soon as they were old enough to crawl, they picked up the first blunt object they could find and started bludgeoning things to death and never turned back. They took no correction as they got older and stronger and craftier, because they were either incapable of understanding, or unwilling. If they were shown the error of their ways, they would still deliberately choose to do wrong.

What I'd posit, is that people are born innocent. They are unaware even of right or wrong. They merely function. If they feel bad they cry out, if they are happy they laugh, that's it. There's no deception in a newborn baby. If you claim that people are incapable of change, then that must mean all must be innocent. Or if you say that some are guilty, then that must mean they changed to become guilty, and that guilt must be a temporary state that reverts back to innocence in the absence of choosing to do wrong.

[Tbeck]

PS, I would argue people are born neither good or bad, and via nature AND nurture we design an end product. However there is inherent nature you will not change. I would therefore assert that the statement that folks don't change is true. If a person is inclined to hit, they will always resort to that. If a person lies they will always resort to that. You can't change inherent nature. This has been true as long as man has been writing. How many sayings, fables, etc? A tiger can't change it's stripes, any more than a human being can change inherent nature. If we could there would be no crime or war.

[Herb]

PS, I would argue people are born neither good or bad, and via nature AND nurture we design an end product. However there is inherent nature you will not change. I would therefore assert that the statement that folks don't change is true. If a person is inclined to hit, they will always resort to that. If a person lies they will always resort to that. You can't change inherent nature. This has been true as long as man has been writing. How many sayings, fables, etc? A tiger can't change it's stripes, any more than a human being can change inherent nature. If we could there would be no crime or war.

Is it inherent nature or learned behavior?

I say that it is some of both, but the majority of it is learned. Good example of it is the people raised in islam. They are taught, from a very early age, that anyone that refuses islam deserve to die. That is where you get all of the muslim terrorists.

Here again, there is always the exception to a rule and some people are just evil. No matter what they are taught they do what they want, that is where you get people like the Las Vegas shooter.

[Fred]

Babies look innocent when they are born they have to to be able to survive. Its evolution so we look after them.

But inside that innocence is a muderer or a librarian. If they start pulling legs of spiders at 4 then you deff got a prob. There is no good and bad school we all sit infront of the teacher taking in the same stuff as the next kid, but interpret what is said differently. Their parents act differently as the kid sees his father back hand his mother after coming home from the pub. That kids interpretation of life is different to another.

So he likes to hurt things and don't care, its common. They grow up leaning to control as we all do. Some cant control turning into evil maniacs at the traffic lights and shoot some one.

He will start to work out his path in life and possibly see that taking advantage of others is the easiest. He will not ever lose that interpretation it is how he sees it and it worked for him. Being imprisoned is a just an occupational hazard, like the annual tax bill. They say he is misunderstood.

Anger and loss of control is prevalent in America, most citizens being on prozac etc etc and even drugs let alone alcohol, not a place for gun ownership or mass shooting are bound to occur.

Community life has developed faster than humans have been able to, leading to confusion , frustration and anger.

[lonerider]

Babies look innocent when they are born they have to to be able to survive. Its evolution so we look after them.

But inside that innocence is a muderer or a librarian. If they start pulling legs of spiders at 4 then you deff got a prob. There is no good and bad school we all sit infront of the teacher taking in the same stuff and the next kid, but interpret what is said differently, their parents act differently as the kid sees his father back hand his mother after coming home from the pub. That kids interpretation of life is different to another.

So he likes to hurt things and don't care, its common. They grow up leaning to control as we all do. Some cant control turning into evil maniacs at the traffic lights and shoot some one.

He will start to work out his path in life and possibly see that taking advantage of others is the easiest. he will not ever lose that interpretation it is how he sees it and it worked for him. Being imprisoned is a just an occupational hazard, like the anual tax bill. They say he is misunderstood.

Anger and loss of control of it is prevalent in America, most citizens being on prozac etc etc and even drugs let alone alcohol, not a place for gun ownership or mass shooting are bound to occur.

Community life has developed faster than humans have been able to, leading to confusion , frustration and anger.

Fred, a look into your view of the world is a scary thing indeed.

[Tbeck]

Herb, you're correct in that we are comprised of nature and nurture, I posted that... But we have an inherent nature that no amount of learning is going to change. I provided the example of a person who hits, but there are loads of others.
I can't handle little one's crying, sets me right off. Now I know that this is an inherent response for me. I will ALWAYS be set off by it. However I am smart enough to recognize this inherent response and take myself away from the offending noise. If I didn't I could very well end up being one of those guy's on the 6pm news charged with shaking a kid senseless.
You can't teach away inherent nature.

[Yooper]

Herb, you're correct in that we are comprised of nature and nurture, I posted that... But we have an inherent nature that no amount of learning is going to change. I provided the example of a person who hits, but there are loads of others.
I can't handle little one's crying, sets me right off. Now I know that this is an inherent response for me. I will ALWAYS be set off by it. However I am smart enough to recognize this inherent response and take myself away from the offending noise. If I didn't I could very well end up being one of those guy's on the 6pm news charged with shaking a kid senseless.
You can't teach away inherent nature.

I agree with this. The smartest things I've ever done is walk away from situations that really push a button where no one is endangered. Maybe folks are thinking you are running away from a problem, You are not. Things may escalate beyond what you can handle. Best scenario, get out for awhile.

[Designer]

Babies look innocent when they are born they have to to be able to survive. Its evolution so we look after them.

But inside that innocence is a muderer or a librarian. If they start pulling legs of spiders at 4 then you deff got a prob. There is no good and bad school we all sit infront of the teacher taking in the same stuff and the next kid, but interpret what is said differently, their parents act differently as the kid sees his father back hand his mother after coming home from the pub. That kids interpretation of life is different to another.

So he likes to hurt things and don't care, its common. They grow up leaning to control as we all do. Some cant control turning into evil maniacs at the traffic lights and shoot some one.

He will start to work out his path in life and possibly see that taking advantage of others is the easiest. he will not ever lose that interpretation it is how he sees it and it worked for him. Being imprisoned is a just an occupational hazard, like the anual tax bill. They say he is misunderstood.

Anger and loss of control of it is prevalent in America, most citizens being on prozac etc etc and even drugs let alone alcohol, not a place for gun ownership or mass shooting are bound to occur.

Community life has developed faster than humans have been able to, leading to confusion , frustration and anger.

Fred, a look into your view of the world is a scary thing indeed.

No fooling!

There is SO much assumption and unfounded,..even bizarre,.. assertion in his message!

Aren't you glad he is thousands of miles away from us? [emoji2]

[Herb]

Babies look innocent when they are born they have to to be able to survive. Its evolution so we look after them.

But inside that innocence is a muderer or a librarian. If they start pulling legs of spiders at 4 then you deff got a prob. There is no good and bad school we all sit infront of the teacher taking in the same stuff and the next kid, but interpret what is said differently, their parents act differently as the kid sees his father back hand his mother after coming home from the pub. That kids interpretation of life is different to another.

So he likes to hurt things and don't care, its common. They grow up leaning to control as we all do. Some cant control turning into evil maniacs at the traffic lights and shoot some one.

He will start to work out his path in life and possibly see that taking advantage of others is the easiest. he will not ever lose that interpretation it is how he sees it and it worked for him. Being imprisoned is a just an occupational hazard, like the anual tax bill. They say he is misunderstood.

Anger and loss of control of it is prevalent in America, most citizens being on prozac etc etc and even drugs let alone alcohol, not a place for gun ownership or mass shooting are bound to occur.

Community life has developed faster than humans have been able to, leading to confusion , frustration and anger.

Fred, a look into your view of the world is a scary thing indeed.

No fooling!

There is SO much assumption and unfounded,..even bizarre,.. assertion in his message!

Aren't you glad he is thousands of miles away from us? [emoji2]

It's great that he doesn't live in this country. However there are more than enough people just like him, that are already here, and fucking up the USA.

[1sttightwad]

In general.. A felon can... get his right to vote and own a gun restored after 10 years of good behavior. He/she must go before a judge and have letters from friends of his/her character to have those rights restored.. I have a good friend that messed around with cocaine years ago, spent some time in the federal system, made parole, and this it the route he had to go. This made him a happy camper since his entire family hunted together. HE could hunt though ONLY with a black powder rifle, or pistol, or a bow even though he was prohibited from center fire or smokeless ammo so he didn't miss out completely.
Dave

[Fred]

In general.. A felon can... get his right to vote and own a gun restored after 10 years of good behavior. He/she must go before a judge and have letters from friends of his/her character to have those rights restored.. I have a good friend that messed around with cocaine years ago, spent some time in the federal system, made parole, and this it the route he had to go. This made him a happy camper since his entire family hunted together. HE could hunt though ONLY with a black powder rifle, or pistol, or a bow even though he was prohibited from center fire or smokeless ammo so he didn't miss out completely.
Dave

Ahhhh bless him. Now lets talk about the victims of his crime since you did'nt elaborate,---are they ok now.

[BRONX INTRUDER]

In general.. A felon can... get his right to vote and own a gun restored after 10 years of good behavior. He/she must go before a judge and have letters from friends of his/her character to have those rights restored.. I have a good friend that messed around with cocaine years ago, spent some time in the federal system, made parole, and this it the route he had to go. This made him a happy camper since his entire family hunted together. HE could hunt though ONLY with a black powder rifle, or pistol, or a bow even though he was prohibited from center fire or smokeless ammo so he didn't miss out completely.
Dave

If he's still prohibited from center-fire.. Was he really given his rights back? Sounds like they still have him locked up a little.

[BRONX INTRUDER]

I don't know how another thread skipped into this one about nature.. Lol. But i'll say this.. Everyone is different.
The human race is an animals unlike others. Some can be a product of their surroundings while some can have something inside them which will make them different.
Everyone is different.

Edit.. Rant..
The world is really turned upside down. One man trying to govern another. Slavery in the present days. Laws built up under the disguise of Protection and Security.. Just to take Freedom. I hate thinking about it.. But it's unavoidable. Permission to travel, permission to fish or hunt and put food on the table. Permission to Protect Your Family and Propery. Forced to have to rely on others for these things. Forced to give children vaccines in order to get education or tou may end up losing them and in prison. Where is our freedom.. We are only free to do as government says. So the people are not on top as they should be. The government should be the ones free to only do as the people say.. But apparently too many people have let it all go and stil see things as great.

[Tbeck]

Bronx, but you have the cart before the horse. The people asked to have those laws with their many restrictions and bans.
The REAL problem is that we REACT and demand from the government law's we would NOT ask for IF we gave serious consideration to the LONG term outcome.
Our elected officials are just as short sighted in debating before giving us what we want.
I posted this before and got shouted down but here goes again. For OUR government to work properly we need two specific group's, the far left, and the far right. Their views are SO foreign to each other that they offset. This does or rather serves two purposes. One it PREVENTS policy and law from passing if too far apart for either. In other words government becomes self limiting. The second thing it does is to bring about COMPROMISE when it is apparent to both extremes that SOMETHING must be enacted.
Now here's the problem; we have MODERATE representation. This means over active government.

I would hope folk's would consider respectfully what I've just posted. I am not always right, but I spend a great deal of time analyzing historical, societal, and political trend's. If you look into our BEST years as a nation, you'll discover the aforementioned to be factual and supported.

[BRONX INTRUDER]

I hear ya brother. Things just really suck. I'm not much book smart on any of that stuff if at all. I just know we aren't free. I'm definitely not free. Wish things were better or someone could show me how to help make it so.

[BlacktopTravelr]

Tbeck, you're wrong. When was the last time the people asked for a ban on anything, especially when it concerns guns? Or try ObamOacare which most, over half, of the people did not want and we got it anyway by a government that didn't care what the people thought. Which is actually opposite of a ban. Never is the answer, but what happens is the government makes a ban or law and tells the people it is for their benefit and the people think it is a good idea and lets it happen without thinking about what ban or law could be coming next and before you know it a group of people have lost their constitutionally given right. One by one the government is taking away those constitutionally given rights in the name of safety and benefit for the citizens and the people don't know what is really good for them. The founding fathers of this once great nation warned us this would happen and the people are too blind to see it.

As for voting in Okla by a felon I found this

Sep 18, 2008 - In Oklahoma, convicted felons are stripped of the right to vote while incarcerated, on parole or probation. When a felon's original sentence is complete, voting rights are restored. Those given a deferred sentence for a felony crime retain their voting rights without interruption.

The conviction by the way was forced on me by a crooked legal system. I was told plead guilty or go to prison for 7 years. And this after already having a misdemeanor agreement with the DA by a different lawyer. I have explained my situation more than once and don't wish to tell it again.

[Tbeck]

BT, actually you're mistaken my friend. We have dozens of activist group's lobbying government to regulate weapon's, their, sale, and even who can have them.
Obamacare wasn't a government idea, it was lobbiests idea, and how many Americans voted for Barry and congressmen who would push it through? We don't live in a democracy where the majority rules.
I haven't lost any rights, have you?
So I hear you playing the blame game, but it isn't based on any fact, and it obviously couldn't be since you don't appear to even understand how our government works.

Bronx, have you written a letter to Trump? The ONLY way I have come across that would restore your second rights fully, is a presidential pardon. Since Trump appears receptive to pardons, I would compose and mail a carefully worded request. You have nothing to lose except postage.
Might sound silly, but if I found myself in your situation, this is exactly what I would do.

[Prodigal_Sun]

BT, actually you're mistaken my friend. We have dozens of activist group's lobbying government to regulate weapon's, their, sale, and even who can have them.
Obamacare wasn't a government idea, it was lobbiests idea, and how many Americans voted for Barry and congressmen who would push it through? We don't live in a democracy where the majority rules.
I haven't lost any rights, have you?
So I hear you playing the blame game, but it isn't based on any fact, and it obviously couldn't be since you don't appear to even understand how our government works.

Bronx, have you written a letter to Trump? The ONLY way I have come across that would restore your second rights fully, is a presidential pardon. Since Trump appears receptive to pardons, I would compose and mail a carefully worded request. You have nothing to lose except postage.
Might sound silly, but if I found myself in your situation, this is exactly what I would do.

Trump waved back at me at a rally. Looked right at me. Doubt he'd know who I was from a letter.
Any who. My point about choices is, people make their choices be it for good or evil, the problem I have (as a felon) is when someone does something horrifically evil, makes national headlines and lawmakers use that as an excuse to hammer another nail into the coffin of my rights. I had nothing to do with those maniacs. But I'm put in the same boat, in a way made to suffer for their offence.

I'm no lawyer, my big brother (God bless his soul) interned for a D.A.'s office while he was in law school. All my life I made a game of outsmarting him while underachieving. I grew up eventually, but not before taking my share of lumps.

Honestly. I think this whole search for the "evil gene" or the notion that once you've offended you're beyond redemption comes from people who've watched too many horror movies. It sounds like "conspiracy theory" when you are looking at it from the outside, but you see it differently when on the other side. You see how the media is an arm of government. That movies are loaded with propaganda, for both sides. Not all of them, mind you. And a lot of the worst ones are very subtle. If it was obvious people would be in an uproar, but they sugar coat it and the public eats it right up.

I like to bash Fred as much as the next guy, but I think there was a lot of Truth in what he said...
Made more sense than some of the shite he spouts. [emoji41]