School again

[SuzyRidr2]

The larger discussion taking place is whether or not your country should arm teachers in the classroom. The video posted is relevant to that discussion. [emoji41]

They're already armed in some states. Federal law makes exceptions to gun-free zones for concealed carry and licensed carry, so states can proceed as they wish for now. The real question in my mind is whether we want federal government to address this. I say no. I say hell no. Casper, Wyoming is not Washington DC. A school in south Chicago is not the same as a school in rural Montana, Citizens and communities have differing attitudes, values, lifestyles, etc. If you don't like your school's policy on guns at least you have the choice of moving to a state whose policies mirror your views. Federal law always means no choices. Leave states alone and leave those decisions to the good people who reside in those states

[BlacktopTravelr]

My take on the video, these ladies need to do two things... more target practice to make sure they have to take fewer shots and since it appeared the young lady saw what was coming she should have been better prepared. The second thing is kill this piece of crap quicker. Both of these ladies are lucky they are alive.

Maybe if a few of these stores put a shotgun under the counter with the barrel facing out about waist high and a few of these idiots get cut in half by a shotgun blast they will think twice about robbing a store.
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[BlacktopTravelr]

This newly released video may add some context to the larger discussion taking place. I'm posting without comment, except that I figure it probably requires careful analysis. And I know that's what we're good at around here. [emoji2]

Forest Acres Liquor in Tulsa, if you want more details...


[youtube][/youtube]

I'm assuming it is the same lady and her daughter as the ones in the video.

TULSA, Okla. – The owner of a Tulsa liquor store and her daughter are speaking out after they shot a suspect multiple times during an armed robbery.
On February 22, Tyrone Lee, 36, walked into Tina Ring’s liquor store and pointed a sawed-off shotgun at the mother and daughter who were working.

Surveillance video shows Lee enter the liquor store and immediately go to the register, grabbing cash.

When Lee tries to walk out of the door, the family hit their security system, which is supposed to automatically lock all doors. In theory, the alleged thief would have been trapped between two glass doors.

However, the interior door didn’t shut fast enough, and Lee was able to get back into the store and point the gun at the women.

“We just ducked to take cover, and then I saw his shotgun and his face and then that’s when I pulled the first round,” Ring told FOX 23.

“They shot him multiple times and he kept coming. He took the gun away and he pistol whipped the woman,” Sgt. Brandon Watkins said.

That’s when Ring’s daughter, Ashley Lee, took action.

“When I seen him hit her in the head and her face just go white, and her eyes, she had her eyes on me the entire time and it was like, I wanted to help her and so, I didn’t want to shoot her and I didn’t want to shoot him, but how can he hurt my mom? So, I mean in her defense, I did what I had to,” said Lee.

Both women say they saved each other’s lives and are extremely thankful for each other.

According to KJRH, Lee is accused of robbing nearly a dozen of other businesses.

[Cuban]

They're already armed in some states. Federal law makes exceptions to gun-free zones for concealed carry and licensed carry, so states can proceed as they wish for now. The real question in my mind is whether we want federal government to address this. I say no. I say hell no. Casper, Wyoming is not Washington DC. A school in south Chicago is not the same as a school in rural Montana, Citizens and communities have differing attitudes, values, lifestyles, etc. If you don't like your school's policy on guns at least you have the choice of moving to a state whose policies mirror your views. Federal law always means no choices. Leave states alone and leave those decisions to the good people who reside in those states.

[emoji2] Sounds like a resonable approach to me. Still should be 100% voluntary though right? I mean if some states choose to enact something?

I'm assuming it is the same lady and her daughter as the ones in the video...

[emoji2] Yep that's the correct story, John. A mother and daughter working in their liquor store.

[SuzyRidr2]

[emoji2] Sounds like a resonable approach to me. Still should be 100% voluntary though right? I mean if some states choose to enact something?

It should absolutely be voluntary and as far as I know that's what's being proposed.

[MadCow]

[emoji2] Sounds like a resonable approach to me. Still should be 100% voluntary though right? I mean if some states choose to enact something?

It should absolutely be voluntary and as far as I know that's what's being proposed.

Yup, 100% voluntary.

[Designer]

This newly released video may add some context to the larger discussion taking place...

Am quite awake. This answer does not compute. This is a Thread about a Mass Shooting of defenseless Un-armed Teens, the weapon used offensively by a Teen and is not a Hand Gun.

Your video is ENTIRELY not that ...at all. It shows a Robbery, perpetrated by an Adult, on a two armed Adults and is a Defensive use of a Hand Gun.

Thus it really adds ZERO context to the Main Topic/Discussion....don't you agree?

The larger discussion taking place is whether or not your country should arm teachers in the classroom. The video posted is relevant to that discussion. [emoji41]

I really didn't expect you to agree.

Now that this video has been posted, the discussion went to be diverted away from the "larger discussion" of Mass Killings/by Students/Schools/Teachers/Kids and now is about what the totally irrelevant issues of what happened at a Liquor Store/Robbery/Adults.

Only when your Video was ignored did the discussion come back to Arming Teachers.

So, yes,...it is now seen that it was out-of-context and isn't all that relevant...you just want it to be.

[emoji41]

[SuzyRidr2]

I don't care how well the women in that video were trained or how well they executed their attempt at self defense. What I care about is that they had the freedom to purchase a fire arm, learn to use it, and use it to defend themselves and their property. That Tulsa video actually makes a good case for case for gun ownership and carry by private citizens, not against it. I didn't see any cops around. Did you? These ladies had to defend themselves - that's the whole point!

As far as training goes ... I just watched a news story on Fox where seven police officers fired 65 rounds into an RV and hit their suspect not one single time. And these were all highly trained individuals using hand guns and long guns. [space] [emoji106]

[Cuban]

It should absolutely be voluntary and as far as I know that's what's being proposed.

[emoji2]

I really didn't expect you to agree. Now that this video has been posted, the discussion went to be diverted away from the "larger discussion" of Mass Killings/by Students/Schools/Teachers/Kids and now is about what the totally irrelevant issues of what happened at a Liquor Store/Robbery/Adults. Only when your Video was ignored did the discussion come back to Arming Teachers. So, yes,...it is now seen that it was out-of-context and isn't all that relevant...you just want it to be. [emoji41]

Well I for one am so very relieved you were able to work that out Ed. Feel better now?

[Designer]

It should absolutely be voluntary and as far as I know that's what's being proposed.

[emoji2]

I really didn't expect you to agree. Now that this video has been posted, the discussion went to be diverted away from the "larger discussion" of Mass Killings/by Students/Schools/Teachers/Kids and now is about what the totally irrelevant issues of what happened at a Liquor Store/Robbery/Adults. Only when your Video was ignored did the discussion come back to Arming Teachers. So, yes,...it is now seen that it was out-of-context and isn't all that relevant...you just want it to be. [emoji41]

Well I for one am so very relieved you were able to work that out Ed. Feel better now?

I'm rather surprised that you would resort to using sarcastic ridicule when you often post Thoughtful Dialogue when facing Factual Content in a discussion.

[Tbeck]

Cuban I believe it is 17 states that currently allow school districts to allow teacher's to carry.
I personally don't understand why there needs to be any national, state, or even local debate on this. Since the US Constitution says the right shall not be infringed, and since many folks have a concealed carry permit, the choice should be up to those individuals.
I believe that many educator's wouldn't based on my personal experience in schools, but I think enough would to be a substantial deterrent. I personally believe that the entire thing comes down to the lack of deterrent at schools, movie theatres, etc that promote these tragedies.
Obviously this is just my take, for what it's worth.

[lonerider]

Yup, there shouldn't be ANY gun free zones for those that have a valid concealed carry, including teachers. They (should) have the right to carry anywhere.

[Tbeck]

lonerider, it's going to be interesting when some teacher in PA gets caught packing (with a ccp). The PA supreme court ruled; "it shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose."
A doctor was caught wearing his ccw while picking his kid up from school. Made it all the way to the SC of PA and they ruled in favor of the doctor based on "other lawful purpose."
It's gonna happen! I was picking up some ammo today and overheard a conversation between the gun shop owner and a female teacher looking at handguns. I also know some board members mentioned me by name in a discussion about arming some teachers. People will take matter's into their own hands.

[Cuban]

Cuban I believe it is 17 states that currently allow school districts to allow teacher's to carry...

Thanks T. I didn't know that. Then again... why would I?

I believe that many educators wouldn't based on my personal experience in schools, but I think enough would to be a substantial deterrent. I personally believe that the entire thing comes down to the lack of deterrent at schools, movie theatres, etc that promote these tragedies. Obviously this is just my take, for what it's worth.

'Gun Free Zones'. Yes, I recall one of our longer threads on the old board, I believe after the movie theatre shooting in Aurora. As you know, I'm a non-gun guy in Canada. After listening to much discussion, and thinking about the issues y'all are facing, the idea of broadcasting (advertising) so-called 'soft targets' seemed quite daft, even to me.

[Tbeck]

Cuban, yep it's really mind boggling.
I am thinking that some teacher is going to attempt to use the PA supreme courts ruling to test the ground so to speak. One of the "lawful purposes" listed on the permit is "self defense." Since the ruling stated a defense to the gun free zone is "lawful purpose" a teacher packing for self defense would be legit.
Also a teacher wouldn't need what is called Act 235 training because the carry isn't part of the job.
It's going to get interesting I think.

[Fred]

What is a gun free zone,--do you actually mean in some juvenile way that this zone is gun free and you think a guy that intends to kill others and then himself gives a fuck about that.

It boils down to the same thing every time, your ability to think things out. Its like Americans came from planet zong.

If Japan had declared themselves a nuclear free zone you would not have been able to bomb Nagasaki or would you still have and broken the law?

You guys do my brains in.