Intruders-Alert

My buddy and I were going to ride quads this weekend, he refused to put regular gas in this quad, so we wasted an hour looking for race fuel, then he settled on Ultra 94.

I told him that he's being ridiculous and that the quad should run on 87.

So tired of arguing this "premium" gas myth.

That's a RTFM moment; my VS800 ran poorly on premium 93, when I had to use it - station was out of 87. It just doesn't burn as fast, and some always ends up in the pipes, doing nothing for performance.

My 1996 VS1400 HATES regular gas. I put a tank of 87 in and it ran like shit.
I run either 91 pure or 93 high octane at all times.
40+ MPG and always good power and easy starting.

Just my 2 cents worth.

wj_hurd wrote:My 1996 VS1400 HATES regular gas. I put a tank of 87 in and it ran like shit.

Maybe that's the crap the EPA makes them put in it. The 87 around here runs better than higher octane, but the bike runs even better if I get outside the EPA's 'special' region, about 100 miles out. Of course, 87 without ethanol runs best.

My 2 run great on 91 ethanol. But I do on occasion add 1/2 cup of engine oil to a full tank of gas.

[emoji41]

wj_hurd wrote:My 1996 VS1400 HATES regular gas. I put a tank of 87 in and it ran like shit.
I run either 91 pure or 93 high octane at all times.
40+ MPG and always good power and easy starting.

Just my 2 cents worth.

You might be higher compression with carbon build up. Try some carbon cleaner and see how she feels about 93.....

98VS1400 wrote:

wj_hurd wrote:My 1996 VS1400 HATES regular gas. I put a tank of 87 in and it ran like shit.
I run either 91 pure or 93 high octane at all times.
40+ MPG and always good power and easy starting.

Just my 2 cents worth.

May I just say...

Correct.

Octane Explained

If he has heavy carbon build up, it can increase compression and until it screws up the engine can increase fuel mileage as well.

Running higher octane could also help stop preignition from the hotspots caused by carbon. It is entirely plausible that the engine runs better on higher octane fuel.

Saying that.... it's not a good thing... very bad, but it could be entirely true.

98VS1400 wrote:

scootermcq wrote:If he has heavy carbon build up, it can increase compression and until it screws up the engine can increase fuel mileage as well.

Running higher octane could also help stop preignition from the hotspots caused by carbon. It is entirely plausible that the engine runs better on higher octane fuel.

Saying that.... it's not a good thing... very bad, but it could be entirely true.

Again, may I just say...



Note: You may be entirely correct, but it just seems like one of those days for me. If he's got a carbon problem, he should spend $8 on a can of Seafoam, run it through 5 tanks of gas and go back to 87 octane. My guess is ole Warren just likes the feel of putting 93 octane in his bike so he can tell everyone what a powerful beast his bike is. However, I could be entirely wrong. He runs synthetic oil in it also.

Could just be the plugs he's using. Too hot a plug will cause preignition as well. But, the carbon build could be from using too cold of a plug and not getting a compete burn.

Either way, I'm almost certain it's the plugs, or dirty air filters. Both problems, Seafoam won't cure.

98VS1400 wrote:

wj_hurd wrote:My 1996 VS1400 HATES regular gas. I put a tank of 87 in and it ran like shit.
I run either 91 pure or 93 high octane at all times.
40+ MPG and always good power and easy starting.

Just my 2 cents worth.

May I just say...

When you come up to my neck of the woods, I'll toss you the keys and let you feel it.

enforcer wrote:

98VS1400 wrote:

scootermcq wrote:If he has heavy carbon build up, it can increase compression and until it screws up the engine can increase fuel mileage as well.

Running higher octane could also help stop preignition from the hotspots caused by carbon. It is entirely plausible that the engine runs better on higher octane fuel.

Saying that.... it's not a good thing... very bad, but it could be entirely true.

Again, may I just say...



Note: You may be entirely correct, but it just seems like one of those days for me. If he's got a carbon problem, he should spend $8 on a can of Seafoam, run it through 5 tanks of gas and go back to 87 octane. My guess is ole Warren just likes the feel of putting 93 octane in his bike so he can tell everyone what a powerful beast his bike is. However, I could be entirely wrong. He runs synthetic oil in it also.

Could just be the plugs he's using. Too hot a plug will cause preignition as well. But, the carbon build could be from using too cold of a plug and not getting a compete burn.

Either way, I'm almost certain it's the plugs, or dirty air filters. Both problems, Seafoam won't cure.

Stock NGKs, just like these. No they are not my current plugs, but I put the exact same make and model back into.


So to kill this debate... Will running higher octane fuel cause any engine damage? Will I burn a hole in a valve or piston? Other than costing .08 cent more per gallon, will I damage my engine? Because for the last 5,000 miles I have run the higher octane, and had ZERO issues.

wj_hurd wrote:

enforcer wrote:

98VS1400 wrote:

scootermcq wrote:If he has heavy carbon build up, it can increase compression and until it screws up the engine can increase fuel mileage as well.

Running higher octane could also help stop preignition from the hotspots caused by carbon. It is entirely plausible that the engine runs better on higher octane fuel.

Saying that.... it's not a good thing... very bad, but it could be entirely true.

Again, may I just say...



Note: You may be entirely correct, but it just seems like one of those days for me. If he's got a carbon problem, he should spend $8 on a can of Seafoam, run it through 5 tanks of gas and go back to 87 octane. My guess is ole Warren just likes the feel of putting 93 octane in his bike so he can tell everyone what a powerful beast his bike is. However, I could be entirely wrong. He runs synthetic oil in it also.

Could just be the plugs he's using. Too hot a plug will cause preignition as well. But, the carbon build could be from using too cold of a plug and not getting a compete burn.

Either way, I'm almost certain it's the plugs, or dirty air filters. Both problems, Seafoam won't cure.

Stock NGKs, just like these. No they are not my current plugs, but I put the exact same make and model back into.


So to kill this debate... Will running higher octane fuel cause any engine damage? Will I burn a hole in a valve or piston? Other than costing .08 cent more per gallon, will I damage my engine? Because for the last 5,000 miles I have run the higher octane, and had ZERO issues.

Not exactly but it really depends on why you're running it in the first place. A jump in octane should only be done when you get a spark knock/pinging/preignition, whatever you want to call it. And considering these bikes have a fairly weak ignition system in the first place, you're just adding insult to injury. You should exhaust other options before you jump octane. Check for carbon build up, fresh plugs, air filters, properly synced and air fuel screw adjusted properly.

If you're not getting a complete burn, you will only get more carbon build up. That can cause more recognition, plug fouling, any your valves not to seat properly and possibly bend or break one if it gets bad enough. Carbon is the enemy.

If you are positive everything is in tip top shape, the Keith's suggestion. First, a high dose, like 1 1/2-2 oz per gallon, then in subsequent tanks the recommended dose. If your bike starts running worse, you know it's working. Then, switch to regular. But I would suggest doing the high dose with regular fuel anyway. The Seafoam is a petroleum product, with enough alcohol added in to boost your octane slightly anyhow. Not from 87 to 93, but enough.

Thank you for the responses.

1.) I have been told by different motorcycle techs, run higher octane in my bikes. I did so in my 95 Shadow VLX600 and in my Intruder. He said because the engines run hotter being partially air cooled, the higher octane burns better.

2.) I use seafoam, I swear by the stuff. I also know that over use will cause damage. I used about 3-4 shot glasses in the first 3-4 tanks after winter storage. I have not added any since then, as the bike has been running sweet.

3.) When I ran the 87 oct, it pinged, knocked, farted, hard to start, and ran like total shit. Crap acceleration, MPH dropped to 32 mpg from 40+
I used seafoam then to clean out the crap. Now maybe, I got a bad batch of gas, I will admit that is possible, but when I had done the same thing with my shadow, it too had run like crap.

4.) The pict is the exact model plugs I'm using. I replaced them with new, well they were out and why not. I could easily clean them up, touch up the gap and put them back in.

5.) Air filters are K& N drop pods, about 3K on them, I haven't pulled them this season, bike has been running good, so I didn't bother. I certainly could and give you an update. (Update will have to wait till I get back from vacation )

6.) Carbon... I do n't have a scope to peer into the cylinders, and I'm certainly not going to rip apart the heads to check. Maybe I can check with a flash light? ;IDunno:

7.) Complete burn... I think with the amount of W.O.T cracks I do, I'm pretty confident I'm getting a complete burn!

8.) I mostly run 91 octane pure NON-ethanol gas. If that makes a difference. I could try a tank of 87 NON-ethanol, might be worth a try, but its just as much as the 91.
Ya sick bastage!

According to the American Petroleum Institute the gas-pump hose typically retains about one half of a gallon of fuel. So when you pump a couple gallons of 93-octane premium after the previous customer pumped 87-octane regular, your fuel load would be diluted (not to mention overpriced).

When you are pumping into a 3 gallon tank that still has a gallon or so left in it.... you are only getting 1.5 gallons of the "premium" stuff.

The other issue I have is that fuel is used less often than 87, so you have better odds of getting "bad" gas. The 87 is replenished way more often.

wj_hurd wrote:Thank you for the responses.

1.) I have been told by different motorcycle techs, run higher octane in my bikes. I did so in my 95 Shadow VLX600 and in my Intruder. He said because the engines run hotter being partially air cooled, the higher octane burns better.

most techs know no more about octane requirements than your mom.

4.) The pict is the exact model plugs I'm using. I replaced them with new, well they were out and why not. I could easily clean them up, touch up the gap and put them back in.

5.) Air filters are K& N drop pods, about 3K on them, I haven't pulled them this season, bike has been running good, so I didn't bother.

These two could explain it all. You are running lean, and that, alone, will make an engine begin to ping. Running higher octane fuel slows the burn, and so the combustion chamber doesn't reach the peak temperatures that cause pre-ignition.

WintrSol wrote:

wj_hurd wrote:Thank you for the responses.

1.) I have been told by different motorcycle techs, run higher octane in my bikes. I did so in my 95 Shadow VLX600 and in my Intruder. He said because the engines run hotter being partially air cooled, the higher octane burns better.

most techs know no more about octane requirements than your mom.

4.) The pict is the exact model plugs I'm using. I replaced them with new, well they were out and why not. I could easily clean them up, touch up the gap and put them back in.

5.) Air filters are K& N drop pods, about 3K on them, I haven't pulled them this season, bike has been running good, so I didn't bother.

These two could explain it all. You are running lean, and that, alone, will make an engine begin to ping. Running higher octane fuel slows the burn, and so the combustion chamber doesn't reach the peak temperatures that cause pre-ignition.

Correct, on both accounts.

Have you checked your jetting?

WintrSol wrote:

wj_hurd wrote:Thank you for the responses.

1.) I have been told by different motorcycle techs, run higher octane in my bikes. I did so in my 95 Shadow VLX600 and in my Intruder. He said because the engines run hotter being partially air cooled, the higher octane burns better.

most techs know no more about octane requirements than your mom.

4.) The pict is the exact model plugs I'm using. I replaced them with new, well they were out and why not. I could easily clean them up, touch up the gap and put them back in.

5.) Air filters are K& N drop pods, about 3K on them, I haven't pulled them this season, bike has been running good, so I didn't bother.

These two could explain it all. You are running lean, and that, alone, will make an engine begin to ping. Running higher octane fuel slows the burn, and so the combustion chamber doesn't reach the peak temperatures that cause pre-ignition.

He is not running lean, that is the way plugs should look with the ethanol fuel. If your plugs are a darker color, with ethanol fuel, then you are running WAY too rich.

Running a higher octane than you need will result in more carbon build up, in the head and the exhaust, harder starting (especially in cold weather), lower fuel mileage and shorter plug life (they will carbon up).

The ONLY reasons to run a higher octane than the manufacture recommends is if the engine has been modified to a higher compression and or the engine pings under high load conditions..

Both of my 1400's HATED the higher octane fuels and usually wouldn't start in below 35 deg weather. With the 87, or, when I can find it, 85, the bike starts better, has better power, and gets better mileage.

wj_hurd wrote:...
So to kill this debate... ...

wj_hurd wrote:...
Will running higher octane fuel cause any engine damage? ...

NO

wj_hurd wrote:...
Will I burn a hole in a valve or piston? ...

NO

wj_hurd wrote:...
Other than costing .08 cent more per gallon, will I damage my engine? ...

NO

wj_hurd wrote:...
... for the last 5,000 miles I have run the higher octane, and had ZERO issues.

[emoji106]

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98VS1400 wrote:I find it interesting how different fuel injected bikes are where fuel is concerned. I guess it's the same way with cars though. When I bought my Triumph, the salesman told me to use nothing but 93 octane. But on a Triumph forum, some guys say to use the lowest octane you can find. When I finally got my hands on a Triumph service manual, the correct answer wasn't much clearer! Here is what it says...

Fuel Requirements - USA
In the United States of America where the octane rating of fuel is measured in a different way, the following information may be applied : This model is designed to run on unleaded gasoline with a CLC or AKI octane rating CR+Ml/2 of 87 or higher.

"Or higher" being the key words. For the first few months of ownership, I only used 87. However, I found it difficult to start once in a while. So I went up to 93 and things seemed better. But then I got on the ethanol free gas train and now I use whatever octane is available at the nearest ethanol free pumps. Usually that is 90. My bike seems to run better, and gets slightly better gas mileage.

I'll be interested to see what the plugs look like in 5,000 miles when it goes in for the 20k service.

According to the wiki, you have a 12:1 compression. I wouldn't put in any lower than 91.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Tiger_1050

98VS1400 wrote:Oh, my bike is the Explorer 1200. It has 11:1

Then yeah, 90 is fine. If it were 12:1, 90 with ethanol would work better. Ethanol raises your octane.