My Resurrection Thread
- Designer
- Joined a 1200cc Club
- Posts: 17509
- Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:34 am
- My Bike: Two 1400 Custom Made Choppers
- hillsy v2
- Bike out of hock
- Posts: 3144
- Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:35 pm
- My Bike: Too many to list
Re: My Resurrection Thread
Confusing. He doesn't talk about the seats - just the needle....and says he doesn't know what the seats go into....which tells me he probably hasn't taken them out and changed the orings.
It's not rocket science - there's only a couple of ways the carb will overflow - bad float needle, float needle seat oring leaking, stuck / sinking float or incorrect float height.
It's not rocket science - there's only a couple of ways the carb will overflow - bad float needle, float needle seat oring leaking, stuck / sinking float or incorrect float height.
- Herb
- Joined a 1200cc Club
- Posts: 19371
- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:28 pm
- My Bike: 1999 1400 intruder
Re: My Resurrection Thread
The float setting should be just at the point that the float starts to compress the spring on the needle valve. If it is being allowed to rest on the needle valve it is too high.
Back in the old days the float valve needles were solidand the float could rest on the needle when setting the float height. Can't do that any more.
Also check to see if there is any dirt on the seat.
Back in the old days the float valve needles were solidand the float could rest on the needle when setting the float height. Can't do that any more.
Also check to see if there is any dirt on the seat.
I can't seem to win the lottery. I think I have used up all of my good luck riding motorcycles.
- Designer
- Joined a 1200cc Club
- Posts: 17509
- Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:34 am
- My Bike: Two 1400 Custom Made Choppers
Re: My Resurrection Thread
Yes, It is a bit confusing.
Dave said this
Dave said this
ncdave wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:33 pmso, not seeing any reason for these carbs not to be good, I installed the rear and gave it another try. I'm actually getting fuel overflow from BOTH of the carbs. is there something more I could take apart? the float needles look brand new. what do they seat into? any chance there might be an o-ring or something missing? Just can't imagine that both of them would be bad.
-
- Learning My Moped
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:43 am
- My Bike: 97 1400 Intruder
Re: My Resurrection Thread
the carbs were sent off and completely rebuilt. That included replacing the rear carb because it was stuck solid and could not be brought back to life. I'm going to try adjusting the tab for the needle to see if it's just not seating completely.hillsy v2 wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 2:51 pmSo you haven't replaced the float valves and o rings? That's your problem. Do the check I mentioned earlier with the hose.ncdave wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:33 pmso, not seeing any reason for these carbs not to be good, I installed the rear and gave it another try. I'm actually getting fuel overflow from BOTH of the carbs. is there something more I could take apart? the float needles look brand new. what do they seat into? any chance there might be an o-ring or something missing? Just can't imagine that both of them would be bad.
-
- Learning My Moped
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:43 am
- My Bike: 97 1400 Intruder
Re: My Resurrection Thread
I don't know carbs, so just taking wild guesses as what the problem could be. I've been messaging with the guy who rebuilt them. He suggested trying to adjust the float needle tabs. I'm going to move them UP to try to put a bit more pressure on the needle and see if that works. if not, I'm going to pull them and send them back to him for further diagnosis. I was just hoping I could figure it out myself.Designer wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 5:46 amYes, It is a bit confusing.
Dave said thisncdave wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:33 pmso, not seeing any reason for these carbs not to be good, I installed the rear and gave it another try. I'm actually getting fuel overflow from BOTH of the carbs. is there something more I could take apart? the float needles look brand new. what do they seat into? any chance there might be an o-ring or something missing? Just can't imagine that both of them would be bad.
On the positive side, both cylinders are running. Once these carb problems are out of the way it should be good for some neighborhood test rides.
- hillsy v2
- Bike out of hock
- Posts: 3144
- Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:35 pm
- My Bike: Too many to list
Re: My Resurrection Thread
Oh dear - that's a bit of a worry.
You can check this yourself though:
hillsy v2 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 1:34 pm
While you have the carb out - fix a piece of hose to the fuel inlet and blow into it. With the float and valve removed - put your finger over the valve seat. The oring for the float valve might be leaking - this will test it. If that's good then put the float and valve back in and blow again. With the carb upside down the air flow should stop.
-
- Learning My Moped
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:43 am
- My Bike: 97 1400 Intruder
Re: My Resurrection Thread
valve seat being the tube which the needle fits down into???hillsy v2 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 1:34 pm
While you have the carb out - fix a piece of hose to the fuel inlet and blow into it. With the float and valve removed - put your finger over the valve seat. The oring for the float valve might be leaking - this will test it. If that's good then put the float and valve back in and blow again. With the carb upside down the air flow should stop.
- hillsy v2
- Bike out of hock
- Posts: 3144
- Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:35 pm
- My Bike: Too many to list
Re: My Resurrection Thread
Yes.ncdave wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 7:51 amvalve seat being the tube which the needle fits down into???hillsy v2 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 1:34 pm
While you have the carb out - fix a piece of hose to the fuel inlet and blow into it. With the float and valve removed - put your finger over the valve seat. The oring for the float valve might be leaking - this will test it. If that's good then put the float and valve back in and blow again. With the carb upside down the air flow should stop.
-
- Learning My Moped
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:43 am
- My Bike: 97 1400 Intruder
Re: My Resurrection Thread
ok guys...need some further guidance.
I pulled the rear carb and drained fuel. I connected a hose to the fuel inlet and plugged the output to the front carb and also plugged the overflow tube. with the carb upside down I blew into the hose. there was some backpressure, but a small amount of air was going through. I then turned the carb right-side-up. pretty much the same pressure was needed to allow that same small amount of air to go through.
what's this telling me? needle not seating?
I pulled the rear carb and drained fuel. I connected a hose to the fuel inlet and plugged the output to the front carb and also plugged the overflow tube. with the carb upside down I blew into the hose. there was some backpressure, but a small amount of air was going through. I then turned the carb right-side-up. pretty much the same pressure was needed to allow that same small amount of air to go through.
what's this telling me? needle not seating?
- Herb
- Joined a 1200cc Club
- Posts: 19371
- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:28 pm
- My Bike: 1999 1400 intruder
Re: My Resurrection Thread
When the carb is upside down with the float holding the needle down into the seat it should be relly hard to blow thorugh into the carb bowl. Either the needle isn't seating properly or the o-ring on the bottom of the seat itself isn't sealing.
This is a link to the carb diagram.
https://www.suzukipartshouse.com/oempar ... retor-rear
Part 24 on the diagram is the needle and seat. If you look closely at the seat assembly you will see a dark ring just below the threads, that is the sealing o-ring for the seat. The seat should be snug into the carb body.
This is a link to the carb diagram.
https://www.suzukipartshouse.com/oempar ... retor-rear
Part 24 on the diagram is the needle and seat. If you look closely at the seat assembly you will see a dark ring just below the threads, that is the sealing o-ring for the seat. The seat should be snug into the carb body.
I can't seem to win the lottery. I think I have used up all of my good luck riding motorcycles.
-
- Joined a 1100cc Club
- Posts: 5511
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:33 pm
- My Bike: VS800
Re: My Resurrection Thread
Don't plug the overflow.ncdave wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 8:11 amok guys...need some further guidance.
I pulled the rear carb and drained fuel. I connected a hose to the fuel inlet and plugged the output to the front carb and also plugged the overflow tube. with the carb upside down I blew into the hose. there was some backpressure, but a small amount of air was going through. I then turned the carb right-side-up. pretty much the same pressure was needed to allow that same small amount of air to go through.
what's this telling me? needle not seating?
Try blowing right-side-up with the overflow open, air should flow.
Upside-down it should not flow air.
-
- Learning My Moped
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:43 am
- My Bike: 97 1400 Intruder
Re: My Resurrection Thread
thanks. will give that a try.
- hillsy v2
- Bike out of hock
- Posts: 3144
- Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:35 pm
- My Bike: Too many to list
Re: My Resurrection Thread
If you haven't removed / replaced the float valve seat this is the o-ring that will be leaking.
-
- Learning My Moped
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:43 am
- My Bike: 97 1400 Intruder
Re: My Resurrection Thread
How likely would it be that both carbs have this same problem? very useful!!!
BTW...I tried the pressure test without covering the overflow. when upside down it was holding more pressure, but not completely stopping air (fuel) flow.
How does the valve assembly (24 in diagram) come out?
-
- Joined a 1100cc Club
- Posts: 5511
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:33 pm
- My Bike: VS800
Re: My Resurrection Thread
For 24 removal, there is either an inner hex, an outer hex, or a screwdriver slot.ncdave wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:00 amHow likely would it be that both carbs have this same problem? very useful!!!
BTW...I tried the pressure test without covering the overflow. when upside down it was holding more pressure, but not completely stopping air (fuel) flow.
How does the valve assembly (24 in diagram) come out?
Both carbs can have a bad o ring in that position from being baked clean without removal.
If you haven't replaced both parts of 24, do so.
- hillsy v2
- Bike out of hock
- Posts: 3144
- Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:35 pm
- My Bike: Too many to list
Re: My Resurrection Thread
There is a small offset screw (#18) beside the float valve seat which holds the seat in place. This is not a VS carb, but it should still look like this:ncdave wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:00 amHow likely would it be that both carbs have this same problem? very useful!!!
BTW...I tried the pressure test without covering the overflow. when upside down it was holding more pressure, but not completely stopping air (fuel) flow.
How does the valve assembly (24 in diagram) come out?
Undo the screw and the seat will "pull" out. It may be stubborn but if you are replacing the whole thing you don't have to worry about damaging the old one (IE: grab it with pliers and wiggle it out). Otherwise you can use a plasterboard plastic wall plug and screw to wedge in the seat to help you wiggle it out.
-
- Learning My Moped
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:43 am
- My Bike: 97 1400 Intruder
Re: My Resurrection Thread
thank you guys!!!
-
- Learning My Moped
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:43 am
- My Bike: 97 1400 Intruder
Re: My Resurrection Thread
my carb rebuild guy says he replaced those o-rings as part of the rebuild. I'm going to proceed with pulling the carbs and sending them back to him for review.
Given my prowess with carbs, that will definitely be the best approach.
Given my prowess with carbs, that will definitely be the best approach.
- Designer
- Joined a 1200cc Club
- Posts: 17509
- Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:34 am
- My Bike: Two 1400 Custom Made Choppers
Re: My Resurrection Thread
That was pretty much my thoughts here. The likelihood that he didn't replace them was VERY small, if at all. Hence my not commenting on the o-rings/lack of being the source of your angst.
After all the disassembly & many tests you have done so far, I am quite curious as to what your Carb rebuilder will find that causes your overflowing.