Strange starting issues

[vorgath]

Background:

Got new handlebars, had to extend all the wires. Something else came up so I had to put the project on hold for a while.

Current:

Bike won't start. At first it wouldn't even turn over, just fuel pump clicking. I did the screw driver to solenoid and it turned over with too much sparks (may have fried some wiring) but still no start.

I realized I shouldn't have doubted myself, when I saw two loose wires spliced together, seems the clutch switch at the handle bar is bad, so I disconnected again like I found them and respliced them together.

Now the engine turns over for a little bit, then click click click from one of the relays behind the seat. I even tried splicing two of the relay wires together (yellow/green with yellow/black) like one guy did on You Tube.

But I still can't get the bike started.


The battery is brand new, I figured sat around for two months, might as well get a new one.


I can think of maybe hmmmm three things that could have happened:

1) When on the bike lift, maybe one switch on the bottom got damaged, like the kickstand one ?

2) I may have a loose wire due to extending them ?

3) I may have fried the solenoid, some relay, something, when doing the screwdriver to solenoid thing.


Uhmmmm help ? lol

[Spitfire]

Well there are guys much better qualified than I but the first thing I would check is that you have a good charge on that battery, 12 volts at least. Next check the battery connections, this bike is very susceptible to poor connections. Insure the terminals are clean and really tight when you put the wires back on. Good luck with your project.

[NE_FL]

...
The battery is brand new, I figured sat around for two months, might as well get a new one.
...

I agree that the battery and connections are the first things to look at.

Since the battery is new but sat around it might just need a long slow charge to bring it back. It won't cost you anything to try that first (if you have a charger).

.

[Lechy]

A quick load test is to turn on the headlight and press the start button, it should dim a little, if it dims a lot or goes out get your battery fully load tested.
[emoji41]

[vorgath]

Lol

OK to clarify, the battery is brand new, it was the old battery that sat around for months.

Yesterday it cranked like a champ (since I had it all night on the battery tender) but still no start. I decided to simultaneously apply power from the battery to the fuel pump just to test it, but still no start.

Will check for spark from the plugs today, oh and btw ever since this issue started, the horn hasn't been working either.

[vorgath]

I checked the fuses, all good.

Yes I have facebook, gotta find this site on facebook

[Lechy]

Here is a link to Doggy-d's manual from over on the purple board, it's downloadable. If you ever get over there give him a thank you.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/5ha60s9sk ... 63-03E.pdf

Meanwhile, try jumping a hot wire from the battery to the fuel pump and see if it kicks in, if not, remove the cover and clean the contacts. I see you already did that. On the bottom of the carb float bowl is a bleed screw, hold a folded rag under the bowl, open the drain screw and check for fuel in the bowl, best done on the front carb.
[emoji41]

Hey Keith,

[emoji41]

[Spitfire]

Using the wiring diagram for my s 83 I drew a schematic of the starting circuit so I can isolate all the switches and components involved. The system is a lot more complicated with switches and components then you would think. If you are interested I will scan it and upload it so you can use it to help troubleshoot your problems. It does sound like you may have more problems than just the starting circuit though.

[vorgath]

Thanks for the Facebook link


And yes, I would highly appreciate the starting system schematic

[Spitfire]

Hope this helps, it is for my 2005 S83. I extrapolated the start circuit from the wiring diagram in the downloaded service manual. If you have any questions feel free to ask but I believe it is pretty straight forward.

[vorgath]

Update:


Pulled both plugs, checked for spark, not entirely impressive spark but it's there.

Also pressure and fuel coming up through the cylinders.


Looked again, and I noticed my decompression cable is not attached to the front carb, now I know it would explain for issues cranking the engine unless the battery is fully charged and hooked up to my battery tender .... but ... would that prevent the bike from actually starting ?

[vorgath]

Correction:

I meant front cylinder head, not carb, according to this (for the LC Intruder, not 1400, but still)

http://www.moccsplace.com/images/decomp/decomp.htm

[YoDude]

The bike can crank without the decomp system working, but it'll play hell with the starter motor, given time. It would not be a cause of the bike not actually starting and running.

However, if the decomp module has something wrong with it, it could keep the bike from starting.

Yo-

[Herb]

Something to keep in mind, these bikes will crank pretty good, with a no start, when the battery is a little weak. At about 10.5-11 vdc the bike will crank but there is not enough voltage to fire the plugs.
If you pull the plugs out and crank it to check for spark, it will check good because without the compression it doesn't put enough load on the battery to draw it down.
I discovered this on my 87 when it would not start. I pulled the plugs and checked for spark and it checked good but the plugs were wet when I pulled them. I put them back in and fooled with it some more, sounded like it was cranking good. rather than pull the plugs again I used a spare plug off of a dirt bike, no spark, until I pulled one plug, then it tried to start on the other cylinder.
I put a meter on the battery and tried to start it, the battery voltage was 12.3 and dropped to about 10.4 vdc when cranking. Changed the battery and it started good.

[vorgath]

Both cables for the decompression lever are connected, the bottom one was off. Still no start. 

I'm right now redoing the wiring extensions again, to see if that makes a differemce. Then check the drain hose and tap the carbs to make sure nothing's stuck. 

Ok when I first tried this month's ago, I forgot to plug in the CDI, reconnected it, and all along it was a faulty clutch switch that prevented the starter from turning. 

Any possibility I could have fried something that's linked with feeding juice to the ignition coils ?

[vorgath]

Ok, looking at the schematic .. I now once again wonder ... why do I have TWO orange/white wires leaving the right handlebar side .. but only ONE orange/white wire going from the wire cluster at the headlight ?

And reading the schematic .. orange/white is coils and ignitor

[Spitfire]

Okay, I looked at the schematic for your bike. That orange with white tracer is basically a common power buss that runs power from your run switch and start switch on the right hand handle bar. The O/W gets its power from the engine stop switch which is powered by the O/Bl. The O/Bl wire comes from the side-stand relay that is powered from the fuse box via the O/Y wire. So basically all you have to do is follow the power. Check for power on the O/Y wire at the side-stand relay. Assuming there is power there check across the side-stand relay contacts with the power on and side-stand up. You should show 0 volts or if the relay isn't pulling in around 12 volts. Continue following the power down stream till you find the component that is not doing what it should. This O/W wire feeds from the engine start switch to the starter button and branches off to the two ignition coils, then to the ignitor and finally ends at the fuel pump relay. If you check at any one of the components on O/W wire with the engine stop switch in the on position there should be power (12 volts). It might be interesting to crank the engine while observing to see if the voltage stays at around 12 volts or not. If it doesn't I would check the grounding as you may have a poor connection resulting in enough power to crank but not spark.

Hope this helps or at least gives you something to mull over. [emoji106]

[vorgath]

Any instructions on how to set the decompression unit cables ?

I think that may be the issue

[Herb]

Any instructions on how to set the decompression unit cables ?

I think that may be the issue

Front cylinder, at the top rear of the decomp arm is a stop. The arm should be 0.06 - 0.10inch from, the stop. On the rear cylinder the stop is on the top of the arm, towards the front, it has a tab on the arm and the stop is below it. The distance between the tab on the arm and the stop should be 0.04 - 0.08inch.

If you need it I have a pdf of the manual you can have. PM me with your email.

[YoDude]

Keith posted up a VS1400 manual at the top of this forum that anyone can download directly from this site.

Cool huh? No more bullshit to mess with to get a friking manual!

Yo-