1400 single carb

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

Dear Longhorn

If you receive the picture please enjoy,-- however I would prefer if you do not post them here. I have put a lot of work into this and decided not to post them.

Fred

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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by navigator »

So it didn't work out for you.
Perhaps that is why the bona fide engineers at Suzuki developed the twin carb setup, which worked quite well for the bikes twenty plus year production run.

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Blaine
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Blaine »

navigator wrote:So it didn't work out for you.
Perhaps that is why the bona fide engineers at Suzuki developed the twin carb setup, which worked quite well for the bikes twenty plus year production run.
:cheers: :cheers:
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Image

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Herb
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Herb »

navigator wrote:So it didn't work out for you.
Perhaps that is why the bona fide engineers at Suzuki developed the twin carb setup, which worked quite well for the bikes twenty plus year production run.
Then again, maybe the twin carb setup was required because of a differently designed engine....

A few years ago I read an article on the 1400 and it's firing order. I don't remember the details but there was something about one cylinder firing shortly after the other, then a long pause before the first cylinder fired again. This MAY cause an issue with the vacuum for the one cylinder that fires a long time after the other, especially with the long intake runner.

I also think that the runners to the heads should not have a larger bore than the carb itself.

I looked at taking a front head and putting it on the rear cylinder, using the front carb with a Y fitting between the 2 cylinders. But I don't have the money to get the cam engineered and made for it. Especially since I am not sure it would work...

While I would like the simplicity of the single carb, I am not going to to have a bunch of runners going all over the place to make it work.
I can't seem to win the lottery. I think I have used up all of my good luck riding motorcycles.

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

navigator wrote:So it didn't work out for you.
Perhaps that is why the bona fide engineers at Suzuki developed the twin carb setup, which worked quite well for the bikes twenty plus year production run.
On the contrary its running fine,-- bit rumpty idle but the slightest throttle and its immediate --runs very smooth on the road and sounds very Harley.

I did'nt think any one was interested but the possibility of my failure brought renewed interest

Off to the supermarket to see if I can buy a stainless bowl of some kind to make an air filter cover, might have to just drill 2 small holes on the venturi mouth.

Cant decide wether to refit the pump or discard it. I don't have the same tap under the tank as you. I removed mine and plated it, I soldered a tap at the back left, it is more like a 60's Triumph,---no reserve.

The Harley Mikuni has a 25 idle jet, the suzi mikuni has a 55 and has 2 carbs!!! Thats 110 in total do you know why.

The Suzi Mikuni jet needle does not start to taper till after half way down its length,!!! there is a reason for that.

The suzi does not have a pump do you know why and how it gets round that.

The answer covers all those questions .You never ever need to change mains on CV BS :lmao:

The CV BS 36 is a bastard of a carb and is no way similar to any of its rivals. I shall check the flee market tonight for something else.

You can by brand new Kiehn and Mikuni slide copies here for about 80 dollar but im cheap.

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

Image

Lechy
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Lechy »

Grow old disgracefully young man.

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

Ive done that and seen the VD 3 times , I know its not difficult but it does not work for me. I cant get a direct link that will come up as a picture.

I think my account is disabled some way to stop me posting . It would'nt be the first time.

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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Lechy »

Upload your pics to photobucket.com, open a pic, on the right will be a box with URL's, click on "direct image" this will copy to your clipboard, go back to your post, click on the mountain icon. paste the URL in the middle of the text. make sure your cursor bar is outside of the text then do a preview before submitting.
[emoji41]
Grow old disgracefully young man.

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

Image

Image

Image

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

Finally-- I used photo bucket as lechy advised --thanks lechy. I tell yer it took me less to make the bloody thing than it did to post it up here but alas I have already cut it up and I am moving on to another one.

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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Lechy »

:cheers: [emoji106]

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

New manifold under fabrication. Smaller dia and shorter runners. There is not room to just design a manifold as per the internet --I do not have room for 10foot long runner to harness wave 4. I have barely the room to fit anything at all however after 2 days of thinking about it I have bought 1.1/4 st steel bends ( 70 c each) and a new manifold in the vice.

Bastard stuff to stick weld at .5m walls but my Rowell set to 45A with 1.6 mm rods does a reasonable job if you are patient.

The internet calculators say 32 cm ( about 1.1/4 inch) dia for max toque 3000 . That seems reasonable when Suzuki fit 1.1/4 exhaust headers Ok lets have a go but what I want most of all is drivability and an idle like a Cadillac. If not ille make another.

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

Today has been a disaster I made a full piece plenum chamber with equal runners. The plenum was approx 1x Total swept volume of the V twin. Should have worked great but I made a full piece and it would not go in. Oh well I shall cut that up in the morning and try again.

Im pretty sure I had the rear running fine on the last attempt 4 years ago --now its the front thats running fine, I need a plenum to equalize the intakes from one runner to another.

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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by palchemist »

Hey Fred! This single carb project looks great and I love the idea. I want to make sure I understand the purpose of this plenum you're working on now - it sounds to me like you're making two manifolds of equal volume and matching the volume to the engine displacement. Does matching the plenum volume to the engine swept volume have specific benefits, or is it more like a minimum reasonable size? I am imagining that when the volumes are equal, the engine will empty the plenum of fuel and air on each intake cycle.

Another thing I'm curious about is the effect of the timing of each cylinder on the overall throughput of the carb. Will the vacuum of one cylinder's intake stroke cause problems in the other cylinder?

Lots of questions, I know, thanks for your time!

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

I have absolutely no idea! I spent 3 years on exhausts and made many --I settled on 'surprise' the same dia is fitted stock. This manifold thing or anything I do is not performance related, these bikes are fast enough for me.

A plenum according to the internet is a box of air that the cylinders feeds off making distribution equal,--ok I like the equal bit as per your question.

Im doing this because I want a single carb bike with a simple fuel tap and I want it to run like a RR with gentle in town driving and yet be able to blow the socks off anything that meses.

Im quite a bit away yet and made about 3or4 manifolds now ,---when the inclination hits me, today is a poor motivation day, may go for a swim instead.

Biggest hugest massive prob is the fact that there is no room . Its fitting a plenum and runners underneath a tank and in between 2 cylinder heads--this is the 99% of the prob and is prob why its not done. I need a plenum of about 1 liter and equal runners,--then simply feed that box with a carb,---easy,-- thousands of pics on the internet,--for cars.

Ive had it running on 4 types now and learn a bit more every time, its not life threatening ,--now where is my towel.

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Fred
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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Fred »

I have realized that no one here can keep up with this technical stuff and thats ok.

The reason ALL the manifolds have failed is because of the drop in temperature in the runners causing separation of fuel. This is the reason why it runs better when warm and when I made a reducer in between the carb and manifold to keep the speed of flow.

Thats all gone --dumped and cut up. I have over yesterday and today designed and built a plenum,--phew--difficult in such a small space. It is 800cc and has equal runners with bell mouth rams --Yeah sounds good don't it. Ive got some pics before it was welded up.

All this means is that now I have a 2.1/2 x 10 inch tube from where I take fuel air mix. Each runner is bell mouthed inside the plenum to assist in air flow. The runners have been reduced in size to 1.1/4 to speed up air flow and increase torque or at least keep the torque I had with twins. ACCORDING TO THE INTERNET --- ATTI long small runners increase torque and ATTI a plenum of 70% should be sufficient. It also states that for max torque runners should be 80% of total inlet valve diam.

Ok I will leave it at that and let you know what happens. I may be not confident that it will be perfect but I am confident it will be better.

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Re: 1400 single carb

Post by Lechy »

Why don't you quit pratting about and fit a DCOE 40 jetted for a VW 1300 on the bugger, you know you really really want to.

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